How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?

rseiler

I'm not sure if this fits under the umbrella of what this thread is describing, but I'm noticing in 2.0 (I'm pretty sure this didn't happen before) that often--not always--when switching between already-loaded tabs, that the scrollbar will very quickly flash black and then back to its normal two-tone gray.

If you're switching through a number of tabs, it almost has a strobe-like effect.

I tried recording it, but it didn't come out very well for some reason. You can at least see it happen a couple times.
https://www.screencast.com/t/VoHw1uXe4b

Nekomajin

@rseiler
I can see a scrollbar for a moment on the speed dial, even though the content fits comfortably on the screen.

Ayespy

@nekomajin I am totally aware of this. OP was claiming that without speed, we will have no users. But obviously, people will perceive speed differently, and a benchmark is not a guarantor of usership. I already suggested to OP, to make a feature request for the benchmark tool.

OP steadfastly refuses to define "lag" or to give any environmental specs. I have done all I can do. Future UI speed is the domain of the devs. Current UI speed is a matter of environment and user perception, neither of which I am getting any feedback on.

Ayespy

@nekomajin I can reproduce this. You should report a bug on it, so that I can confirm it and get it into the hands of the developers. It would appear to have nothing to do with UI speed, but be another type of bug.

desperand

@ayespy said in How to trace what make Vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

OP was claiming that without speed, we will have no users.

You don't understand lesson what Google Chrome did in 2008 to the browser market. Yes, they have big and aggressive marketing, but marketing without quality and the fast product is nothing. People moved to chrome because it was FASTER than Firefox or IE. Not because of addons of customization at all, if you do not remember, I will remind you, that chrome from the start did not have any extensions at all, they added their market with a time. From the start, they offer super good speed. And now Vivaldi uses Chromium project as background which is super good for browsing but failing in UI response delays which is not okay. Check Brave Browser, they from the start have used Electron for their APP to draw everything, and they got a lot of complaints about it and now they do a great job by customizing their UI in the native framework (it's called 'aura' as far as I know). The same job do CentBrowser. Yes, it's extremely hard to support software with such customizations because Chromium project continues to change their UI, and I know the pain of solving merge issues, but it will be only one way to make Vivaldi really powerful browser.

All that people want for now beside speed is customization which is luck in Chrome browser.
You can (Vivaldi company with the browser) take hell a lot of customers of Chrome if will be done next:

you continue to deliver superfast back-end as Chromium Core
and you bringing very powerful abilities to customize UI what you do now, but in another way, in the hard way by changing already compiled UI to make sure that your UI instant fast everywhere, and not related anyhow or based on JS / CSS engines which usually draw UI with or without issues on different PCs (delays, lags, etc).

Catweazle

I use Brave as second browser and i don't see big differences in speed with Vivaldi. Maybe depend of the configuration of the system or the browser.
It can also be that with an old PC it does not look so much, something needs 1/10 second more or less to start or open a web page.

Ayespy

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

People moved to chrome because it was FASTER than Firefox or IE

My analysis of the data indicates that people moved to Chrome because they were saturated in advertising for it everywhere they turned, and popups leading to multiple services they wanted suggested they download it and try it. Every advertising bar on the right side of every page on the web had a link to it. It was promoted on every Google search result. Google spent over a billion dollars putting it in front of every eyeball on the web at all times - and even advertising it on TV.

Vivaldi's "failing" UI is the major reason for its speed of development, its novelty, its positive reception in the IT community, and its adoption.

I think what's not being understood here is Vivaldi's own definition of success for itself. It is not the same as yours. It is not to "compete and rank with the big boys." It is to provide a segment of web users ("our friends") an option they will love and use, that will replace what was lost when Opera 12 et prev died; and to do this without losing money. That's its stated goal. You evidently feel it should compete for the masses with the dominant browsers, and win a battle for usership against products in whose space it doesn't even appear. Hence, you and Vivaldi leadership will not agree on values or direction.

desperand

@ayespy said in How to trace what make Vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

My analysis of the data indicates that people moved to Chrome because they were saturated in advertising for it everywhere they turned, and popups leading to multiple services they wanted to be suggested they download it and try it. Every advertising bar on the right side of every page on the web had a link to it.

No, this is wrong. Let me rephrase what you just wrote "People stupid idiots which do not know anything, and advertising + marketing will follow them their actions and what they must to do without thinking because they do not have brains, opinion, and experience to work with something, they just empty "consumers".

I think people not stupid, and they have brains and eyes to see and hands to work with different software and trying one app instead of another, make their own preferred software, etc. 70% of the market (around 900+ million users) saying that people prefer Chrome more.

No, I absolutely disagree. I remember these times very well. And I remember when Opera like Chrome, like Firefox, like Maxthon was built inside the different software, and comes with viruses, with pirated windows distributions, with zona get apps, with utorrent, etc. I remember these times very well, so please do not turn discussion about lags on Vivaldi UI to discussion about marketing, and etc stuff.

Ayespy

@desperand Please read my comment again now that I have finished it. Your field is software. Mine is data analysis. You have your opinions. You have not actually analyzed the data.

pafflick

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

I don't agree with you. I'm a software developer. And I know very well what in 99.9% of cases people want:

And I know that 99.9% of such statistics are made up. So, it's still just your opinion. You don't agree with mine but I cannot agree with yours either. That leads nowhere.

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

they do not care about customization at all if the first thing is done, but they will start to ask for customization for easier solving their problems.

No, I'd say it's exactly the opposite - if the software is stable and reliable, then people will ask for customization. And if it isn't, they will ask to make it stable/reliable first. Maybe you meant something else because what you said there, doesn't make any sense to me.

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

active community and support

Sure, there are people that care about active community and support, but to claim that they're the majority? Where do you get your data from?

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

if customers do not have something that the same fast as they usually see in alternatives, they will move to alternative software, instead of super customizable one, because the most important thing is not solved for them. Who will use software which is slow for them, while other alternatives fast? No one.

True, but this point would only be valid if Vivaldi was actually slow and sluggish. And it isn't. At least not for me and not for many more users who use it every day. Otherwise, we wouldn't even be here, as "no one" would've been using it, right?

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27

I admire you for your patience in adding so many links (after all, it's not the easiest thing to do with the current forum software), but I think you should at least read what they are about. Because the vast majority of this is irrelevant either because it's a duplicate (like the google search results or link to this very thread), outdated (reports from 3-4 years ago, when the browser was still at the "technical preview" stage - something like a "pre-alpha"), unrelated to the UI or issues caused actually by the user's specific setup. So, maybe it doesn't prove anything, but nevertheless, I appreciate the fact that you were at least trying.

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

Yes, they have big and aggressive marketing, but marketing without quality and the fast product is nothing.

Let me rephrase that: good quality and fast product is nothing without a big and aggressive marketing. Try to prove me wrong. Or better - try telling that to the big companies who spend literally millions of $$$ on marketing.

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

People moved to chrome because it was FASTER than Firefox or IE.
I think people not stupid, and they have brains and eyes to see and hands to work with different software and trying one app instead of another, make their own preferred software, etc. 70% of the market (around 900+ million users) saying that people prefer Chrome more.

It was just one of the factors. I know too many people who would keep pressing the "Next" button, agreeing to install some extra software (like Chrome) without realizing it, just to get as quickly as possible to the program they actually intended to install. Or just press a button "Get Chrome" only because it got in their way. And there are many people who confuse the Internet with Chrome, thinking that it's the same thing. They're unfamiliar with the mere concept of what the web browser is and you claim that they choose Chrome over Firefox consciously? Seriously?
If that was true, it would make all the marketing guys @ Google (and any company that advertise their products) look like complete fools, wouldn't it?

@desperand said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

You can (Vivaldi company with the browser) take hell a lot of customers of Chrome if will be done next:

That's another thing that people keep saying to us - only that everyone finishes the sentence with a feature that he or she needs the most at a given moment. I wonder why nobody is listening to them?

Now, since it became a little offtopic and you don't seem to be much fond of it, there are two things that I'd like to point out:

You still failed to define what kind of lag you are experiencing (on which actions, how long is the delay etc.). Should you read some of the topics that you've mentioned above, you'd notice that those people were more cooperative and actually provided the data needed to investigate the cause of the sluggishness (or at least defined what kind of lags they experience).
I don't see any lags here, on my browser, and many of others that participated in this topic so far has also claimed that they didn't notice any of that. Some of us spend much more time here, so we know what kind of issues are reported here the most and I can assure you it has nothing to do with the UI's alleged sluggishness. Of course, it happens to some people and I'm really sorry that you've found yourself in the 1% who seems to suffer from this issue, but you have to understand that even though this issue is not being ignored, it's not gonna be given the highest priority anytime soon either. So, instead of arguing whether marketing works or not, you could provide the information that is actually useful and only then we could get to some good consensus.

Pesala

I never yet saw any benchmark tool that could improve performance. All they do is magnify the concerns of those users who experience performance issues, or who are obsessed with performance.

Like @Ayespy if find that being able to customise the browser gives me the shortest path to my desired destination.

When it takes a second less to perform an action with a shortcut rather than using context menus, taking 100ms longer to open the tab is of no consequence.

Nekomajin

@pafflick
Just to be clear, the problem exists. I have given you examples.

pafflick

@nekomajin said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

@pafflick
Just to be clear, the problem exists. I have given you examples.

I said:

@pafflick said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

Of course, it happens to some people

and also:

@pafflick said in How to trace what make vivaldi laggy (interface problem) and help devs to fix it?:

this issue is not being ignored

IIRC, nobody in this thread said that this isn't happening at all. It is (though not in every case) and we definitely would like to find a way to improve the overall browser's performance. It's just that we have to know what causes those slowdowns (or when they happen) in the first place before we can figure out a way of fixing it.
For example, if I set a huge image as the background of my SD page, I experience a noticeable slowdown when opening new tabs. But it's not happening when I use smaller images. In such a case, I can pinpoint the possible cause for the lag: using a large image. But when someone comes here and just says: "the UI is slow" without giving any details about what they mean by "slow", which actions are "slow" or how does their environment look like, such comment is of no use for neither us, here on the forum nor for the developers who could've fixed it.

desperand

i will record a video when will be at home.

Nekomajin

@pafflick
The other commenter offered a solution. Yes, it needs resources, but it would pay on the long run.

Also, there was a request a few days ago to make it possible for users to share their hardware setup in their profiles, and it was downvoted.

HellbillyDeluxe

The only slow thing I'm noticing is opening up a private window. That takes about 2 to 3 seconds for me and is quite slower when compared to Firefox or Opera. Other than that, Vivaldi runs absolutely smooth for me.

My hardware:

Intel Core i7 3770
16 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro x64

I'm running Vivaldi 2.0.1309.37 (64-Bit). The 32-Bit version makes no difference in regards to performance.
But since I don't use the private mode that often (mostly to search stuff on Amazon without being logged in), I'm fine with the small delay.

desperand

After adding flags to enable debug the whole interface with default google instruments built-in Chromium, I found some fundamental issues which make whole interface lags.

Whole Vivaldi browser is a chrome window which running a site (yes, it's site) to display interface, and inside another div which running inside itself another site. That why everything so laggy. I think there is nothing that I can do except move to another product because of the problem too complex and will not be solved.

Only one way to make faster Vivaldi UI - drop current JS/HTML/CSS interface which renders browser by itself which than trying to render a site inside. Also, I tried to make a video with lags, but I have removed it because it will have no sense at all to prove something because no one will care or fix anything, because (sorry for many because) it's browser strategy and background on what everything is built.

Mioni

The problem of Vivaldi is the use of exaggerated CPU in certain pages that does not happen in other browsers such as chromium.
It is not possible that devs can not see this.