Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality

mossman

@royalkin said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

This is indeed sad, and rest assured Vivaldi devs, I will be switching to a different browser when my v2 extensions stop working (there are others besides ad-blocking).

So long and thanks for all the fish.

I've not been following the news very closely, but aren't all Chrome-based browsers going to face the same thing? Not sure which "different browser" you can use - Firefox maybe... if you can find the same extensions (and until they also drop v2).

stardepp

Opera One R2 will continue to support Manifest V2 in the future, but will Vivaldi be able to do the same in the long term?

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https://www.stocktitan.net/news/OPERA/opera-launches-opera-one-r2-the-best-opera-browser-kqlza1877foi.html

Ayespy

@stardepp Vivaldi already has continued support for Manifest V2 extensions and native ad/tracker blocker.

That promo piece says nothing about next June. That's when presence or lack of continued V2 support will become relevant.

Catweazle

@mossman, Vivaldi also support Mv2 until the definitive shutdown, but the problem isn't Vivaldi itself, but the Chrome Store, after the shutdown without Mv2 extensions.
The inbuild features in Vivaldi, also the own blocker, are out of this rules, that is the advantage.
The inbuild Vivaldi blocker, at least for me, works fine, even in YT. In rare ocasions the anti adblocker of YT discover it and show the "Adblocker not allowed" advice, blocking the Video, but in this case I only reload it, with which I can watch the Video embedded in a new tab, because of the "Embedded redirect script" without problems.
In other extensions which are not related to security and privacy it's irrelevant if they are Mv2 or Mv3.

In Vivaldi the only thing which concerns me, isn't this, but that in Vivaldi non of the anti.fingerprint extensions and scripts don't work in the current Vivaldi, irrelevant which I use, Browserleaks always show the same unique fingerprint, even with the, before brutal, Jshelter extension in maximal settings.

stardepp

@Ayespy Stylus is my most important extension, but unfortunately doesn't seem to get Manifest V3.

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barbudo2005

@stardepp

Look this post and the following:

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/102083/stylus-won-t-work-due-to-manifest-v3-alternatives

barbudo2005

@Ayespy

Could you please explain in detail how this works.

As far as I understand, correct me if it is incorrect, currently in the current version of Chromium coexists MV2 and MV3.

There will come a time before June 2025 that a new version of Chromium will discard MV2 and only MV3 will remain, which will have as a consequence (for those who have not applied the policy) that their MV2 extensions will stop working.

And in that sense I do not understand why it is argued that Vivaldi supports MV2, if strictly speaking it only depends on the version of Chromium that is adopted.

PS.

I have Chromium 132.0.6783.0 (no policy) installed and MV2 and MV3 extensions coexist without problem.

Ayespy

@barbudo2005 Currently, if you apply the policy, V2 is supported. This will end in about 8 months. Vivaldi has made that clear.

Opera may be making some effort to make present V2 support the default, but they say nothing about what happens in 8 months.

The have roughly ten times the number of developers of Vivaldi, and so may have the ability to keep patching Chromium past the EOL for V2, but it's not clear they plan to do so.

barbudo2005

@Ayespy

Apparently you didn't understand me. I do not intend for Vivaldi to “maintain” MV2 beyond what Google mandates. That was made clear to me long ago and I don't intend for them to do magic.

As I said, I have not applied policiy to Chromium and uBO (MV2) persists without problem.

wojtek

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

You are overlooking the state of browser engines back then. Firefox had a whole team developing the Servo engine, but the browser itself was still on Gecko. Its future was unclear. In the meantime Firefox has fired the Servo team.

Yet Servo got a new energy and is developing quite nicely now:
https://servo.org

It would be nice if Vivaldi (and other browsers) would rally around Servo and create a counterbalance to Chromium... and it would be probably more sane as it would take control over the web from Google towards a foundation…

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

The UI runs on the Chromium engine itself, it wouldn’t render in Gecko. It’s not a realistic option.

Hmm... isn't the UI based in web-tech, thus it should be possible to render it on different web-engine?

luetage

@wojtek Don’t think so. Vivaldi is an Electron‐like app, running on Blink/Chromium. You can’t switch it out easily, if at all, without rewriting everything.

No browser I know of is running Servo currently, and the decision to go with Chromium happened 10 years ago. Not sure what your point is. Gecko or Webkit would have been the only other viable choices. Maybe Servo or LibWeb will become mature enough in future, who knows.

Stardust

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Vivaldi is an Electron‐like app

@wojtek said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Yet Servo got a new energy and is developing quite nicely now:

I hope for a success, also Ladybird project.

mib2berlin

By the way, Opera will support V2 full forever, Brave will support only some V2 extensions after June 2025.
I will add the source later, forgot where I read it today.

https://www.ghacks.net/2024/10/25/opera-plans-continued-support-for-classic-extensions-in-the-browser/

Cheers, mib

Stardust

@mib2berlin said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

By the way, Opera will support V2 full forever, Brave will support only some V2 extensions after June 2025.

Opera? Really? That's unexpected.
I don't believe them about forever, I would never touch that browser.

mib2berlin

@Stardust
Yes, forever was a big word, they have an own extension store and this is a big plus compare to other browsers.
I have it installed for testing like Brave, Arc and so forth.

Cheers, mib

BigMike

@Team_Vivaldi Well, 12 out of my 15 browser extensions are still Manifest v2 extensions, since there's no update due to the developer - or in case of uBlock origin, there is one, but it is no match to the Manifest v2 version.
And your built in blocker can't compete with uBlock origin, as the internal cookie management can't compete with my Cookie Manager extension.

The end of Manifest v2 extensions in Vivaldi will be the time, when I'll consider switching to Firefox.

gcross2

A disappointing outcome. Back to Firefox I guess.

Mekronid

@lipviva: <...> What's your point? I'm not going to stick around while other people get shoved off the cliff like Disney's lemmings.

I once predicted Firefox's downfall years before anyone realized they were being 80% funded by Google. I saw the writing on the wall.

You know what I predict now? Vivaldi, within 2-3 years of having a monopoly on ad blocking, will either lazily fumble its development or take money to create "exceptions" for "approved ads" like the original AdBlock did. It's idiotic to think someone with a guaranteed revenue stream wouldn't either let it die due to no motivation (no cash) or take the cash. They always do.

Vivaldi's not a project dedicated to adblocking. It's meant to serve the internet to users. And sorry, ads are a huge part of the internet. If even ABP and Firefox can fall, then Vivaldi would need one hell of a moral compass to stay on target. The fact they won't maintain Manifest v2 - no, scratch that. The fact they openly say removing features can result in a better user experience means their moral compass is already broken.

Firefox got their head so far up their own rear end that they tried to remove the friggin' downloads bar. How long before Vivaldi goes that route too? Hmm? Maybe never, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.

I've made this sort of prediction 10+ times over the years. Every <...> time, I'm right, and I <...> hate being right.

modedit: offensive language removed. User is reminded to observe the Community Code of Conduct:
https://vivaldi.com/privacy/code-of-conduct/

Mekronid

@mib2berlin: The reason I use uBO to block ads is a little different from most people, I think.

In 2011, I was surfing some random website. I think it was related to a game called Turbo21. Anyway, without me even clicking anything, the webpage suddenly redirected to an ad, then it downloaded a rootkit and installed it before I could so much as understand what was happening.

Luckily, my antivirus caught it. I was able to get rid of the rootkit and went on my merry way.

Actually, no, I was wrong. This rootkit kept popping back up in my network years later even after I wiped that PC and reformatted every USB drive I could think was infected.

In 2014 I located where the goddamn thing was coming from: my motherboard's BIOS. Yeah, really. I only figured it out because my PC kept throwing errors on my HDD's platters at a specific location even though I could read those sectors fine on other PCs. I thought, "hey, what if I change my PC's motherboard." Lo and behold, the rootkit vanished. Not just from the PC but without the BIOS launcher it stopped launching in Windows and Linux, too.

Ever since then I've been paranoid about ads and I won't use cut-down versions of anything. I have nothing to hide on my PC except my crappy novels and my games collection. But you know what? I don't want that nightmare ever again. And the fact that people are so dismissive of how damaging the internet can be when devs like Vivaldi take away security features because it's "too slow." Bah, just ridiculous.

mib2berlin

@Mekronid said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

"too slow." Bah, just ridiculous.

Who from the Vivaldi team says this?
I use Windows since 30 Years, never got any virus or rootkit surfing the web.
I don't think an ad blocker can stop a compromised or malicious webpage, maybe other user know more here.
Just use your V2 ad blocker until June 2025, we will see how the Vivaldi blocker evolve.
Than it is maybe the time to think about another browser.

Cheers, mib