Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality

wojtek

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

You are overlooking the state of browser engines back then. Firefox had a whole team developing the Servo engine, but the browser itself was still on Gecko. Its future was unclear. In the meantime Firefox has fired the Servo team.

Yet Servo got a new energy and is developing quite nicely now:
https://servo.org

It would be nice if Vivaldi (and other browsers) would rally around Servo and create a counterbalance to Chromium... and it would be probably more sane as it would take control over the web from Google towards a foundation…

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

The UI runs on the Chromium engine itself, it wouldn’t render in Gecko. It’s not a realistic option.

Hmm... isn't the UI based in web-tech, thus it should be possible to render it on different web-engine?

luetage

@wojtek Don’t think so. Vivaldi is an Electron‐like app, running on Blink/Chromium. You can’t switch it out easily, if at all, without rewriting everything.

No browser I know of is running Servo currently, and the decision to go with Chromium happened 10 years ago. Not sure what your point is. Gecko or Webkit would have been the only other viable choices. Maybe Servo or LibWeb will become mature enough in future, who knows.

Stardust

@luetage said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Vivaldi is an Electron‐like app

@wojtek said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Yet Servo got a new energy and is developing quite nicely now:

I hope for a success, also Ladybird project.

mib2berlin

By the way, Opera will support V2 full forever, Brave will support only some V2 extensions after June 2025.
I will add the source later, forgot where I read it today.

https://www.ghacks.net/2024/10/25/opera-plans-continued-support-for-classic-extensions-in-the-browser/

Cheers, mib

Stardust

@mib2berlin said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

By the way, Opera will support V2 full forever, Brave will support only some V2 extensions after June 2025.

Opera? Really? That's unexpected.
I don't believe them about forever, I would never touch that browser.

mib2berlin

@Stardust
Yes, forever was a big word, they have an own extension store and this is a big plus compare to other browsers.
I have it installed for testing like Brave, Arc and so forth.

Cheers, mib

BigMike

@Team_Vivaldi Well, 12 out of my 15 browser extensions are still Manifest v2 extensions, since there's no update due to the developer - or in case of uBlock origin, there is one, but it is no match to the Manifest v2 version.
And your built in blocker can't compete with uBlock origin, as the internal cookie management can't compete with my Cookie Manager extension.

The end of Manifest v2 extensions in Vivaldi will be the time, when I'll consider switching to Firefox.

gcross2

A disappointing outcome. Back to Firefox I guess.

Mekronid

@lipviva: <...> What's your point? I'm not going to stick around while other people get shoved off the cliff like Disney's lemmings.

I once predicted Firefox's downfall years before anyone realized they were being 80% funded by Google. I saw the writing on the wall.

You know what I predict now? Vivaldi, within 2-3 years of having a monopoly on ad blocking, will either lazily fumble its development or take money to create "exceptions" for "approved ads" like the original AdBlock did. It's idiotic to think someone with a guaranteed revenue stream wouldn't either let it die due to no motivation (no cash) or take the cash. They always do.

Vivaldi's not a project dedicated to adblocking. It's meant to serve the internet to users. And sorry, ads are a huge part of the internet. If even ABP and Firefox can fall, then Vivaldi would need one hell of a moral compass to stay on target. The fact they won't maintain Manifest v2 - no, scratch that. The fact they openly say removing features can result in a better user experience means their moral compass is already broken.

Firefox got their head so far up their own rear end that they tried to remove the friggin' downloads bar. How long before Vivaldi goes that route too? Hmm? Maybe never, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.

I've made this sort of prediction 10+ times over the years. Every <...> time, I'm right, and I <...> hate being right.

modedit: offensive language removed. User is reminded to observe the Community Code of Conduct:
https://vivaldi.com/privacy/code-of-conduct/

Mekronid

@mib2berlin: The reason I use uBO to block ads is a little different from most people, I think.

In 2011, I was surfing some random website. I think it was related to a game called Turbo21. Anyway, without me even clicking anything, the webpage suddenly redirected to an ad, then it downloaded a rootkit and installed it before I could so much as understand what was happening.

Luckily, my antivirus caught it. I was able to get rid of the rootkit and went on my merry way.

Actually, no, I was wrong. This rootkit kept popping back up in my network years later even after I wiped that PC and reformatted every USB drive I could think was infected.

In 2014 I located where the goddamn thing was coming from: my motherboard's BIOS. Yeah, really. I only figured it out because my PC kept throwing errors on my HDD's platters at a specific location even though I could read those sectors fine on other PCs. I thought, "hey, what if I change my PC's motherboard." Lo and behold, the rootkit vanished. Not just from the PC but without the BIOS launcher it stopped launching in Windows and Linux, too.

Ever since then I've been paranoid about ads and I won't use cut-down versions of anything. I have nothing to hide on my PC except my crappy novels and my games collection. But you know what? I don't want that nightmare ever again. And the fact that people are so dismissive of how damaging the internet can be when devs like Vivaldi take away security features because it's "too slow." Bah, just ridiculous.

mib2berlin

@Mekronid said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

"too slow." Bah, just ridiculous.

Who from the Vivaldi team says this?
I use Windows since 30 Years, never got any virus or rootkit surfing the web.
I don't think an ad blocker can stop a compromised or malicious webpage, maybe other user know more here.
Just use your V2 ad blocker until June 2025, we will see how the Vivaldi blocker evolve.
Than it is maybe the time to think about another browser.

Cheers, mib

Catweazle

@Mekronid, against rootkits there is no other than the System AV. With it's current safe boot and Sandbox, current Windows even protect from Rootkits, because the Defender works even in the bootsector (Safe Boot) This has nothing to do with Vivaldi or the adblocker you use, even the Vivaldi blocker blocks malware websites.
Rootkits came with your downloads or someone with access to your PC upload it and against this, only the own AV can protect you, in Windows the Defender.

In old Windows this what you say was still valid, but in current Windows and it's deense it isn't anymore.
alt text

In the Vivaldi blocker
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Tip: Avoid Torrents and fishy download pages, downloads always from the official homepage. Keep System, AV and browser up to date.

@mib2berlin, also clean sinc more than 25 years, but I think that it has nothing to do with the browser you use. Vivals¡di is as secure as a browser could be and the inbuild adblocker, despite not s powerfull currently as uBO do its work pretty well.
All other is a minimum of common sense and an updated AV, apart of this an tinfoil hat.

Ayespy

@Mekronid said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Vivaldi would need one hell of a moral compass to stay on target.

This is, has always been, and will always be the case.

lipviva

@Mekronid before anyone? Alright, I'm really not interested in reading it. And Vivaldi has already done it, it clearly states in the ad filter that people can opt in or out..., and I opt in.

F3R777

@mib2berlin

Opera will support V2 full forever,

If that comes to be true, Opera will be the final and definitive winner from all of this chaos. And will also be my future browser (I used it as main browser from ~2010 to 2020 [the year I changed it for Vivaldi], so I would happily return to it). I was thinking on Waterfox as an option, but its developers seems either too dumb or too lazy to remove its horrible Firefox's inherited behavior against unsigned extensions (Just as FF, Waterfox also rejects installing extensions if you modified a byte of them. And they have to be packed [and signed] and many other limitations).

mib2berlin

@F3R777
Hi, just wait until June, at this time Google kick the V2 extensions.
I am fine with uBlock Origin Lite and ScriptRunner, both V3.

Cheers, mib

DoctorG

@F3R777 said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

Opera will be the final and definitive winner from all of this chaos

May be.
Do not forget that Opera has much more human and financial power to invest time and developers to add Mv2 patches for its browser.

Catweazle

@DoctorG, even if Vivaldi can create Mv2 patches, without a own extension store, like Opera has, it don't make much sense without Mv2 extensions in it. There is no other possibility to use own inbuild features or using Mv3 from the store after the shutdown. Maybe using scripts.

In any case I see the Chrome Store becoming more and more useless for Vivaldi.

Stardust

@F3R777 said in Manifest v3 update: Vivaldi is future-proofed with its built-in functionality:

f that comes to be true, Opera will be the final and definitive winner from all of this chaos. And will also be my future browser (I used it as main browser from ~2010 to 2020 [the year I changed it for Vivaldi], so I would happily return to it).

There is no more Opera! Classic Opera with presto engine is dead and the current Opera is just another chromium clone. Two different browsers with the same name.

Hadden89

"Plan to" doesn't mean forever