Any word on M3? (internal mail client)

jon

@Janjoore said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

Since the first technical preview of the vivaldi browser I'm looking forwards to the vivaldi email client M3. I use vivaldi all that time. Sometimes I needed an other browser But now Vivaldi is the only browser I use. I was also a user of opera M2. After every stable release i hope M3 will appear in th next snapshot. Until now it was not the time for it. But
reading this topic I think I have to be patient.

Yes, sadly things take longer than what you hope at times. We should have a build for you to test soon, though.

Cheers,
Jon.

Topha

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

We should have a build for you to test soon, though.

Why does this remind me of Duke Nukem Forever? Although my guess would be that M3 will turn out better than that game (which I actually never played).

Vistaus

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@Janjoore said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

Since the first technical preview of the vivaldi browser I'm looking forwards to the vivaldi email client M3. I use vivaldi all that time. Sometimes I needed an other browser But now Vivaldi is the only browser I use. I was also a user of opera M2. After every stable release i hope M3 will appear in th next snapshot. Until now it was not the time for it. But
reading this topic I think I have to be patient.

Yes, sadly things take longer than what you hope at times. We should have a build for you to test soon, though.

Cheers,
Jon.

Can't wait! Quick, maybe dumb, question though: will said test build be a Snapshot or a separate Technical Preview? I hope for a Snapshot

Hadden89

@Vistaus I think it will appear for one or two snapshot cycles and then will go in stable too (as was made for sync).
Is more in private beta now.. No need for a TP

jdvernet

For those not keeping up on things, there's a major gmail redesign on the horizon. So, a good time to release that tech preview would be right about now, as a whole lot of people are going to have a whole lot of frustrations with their webmail very, very soon.

just saying...

Ayespy

@jdvernet A good time, or a really, really bad time. Every time Google changes something on the GMail backend, it breaks M3 (again). A newly-broken M3 that can't negotiate Gmail's already-insanely-difficult IMAP protocols would, I'm sure, be overwhelmingly popular.

luetage

@Ayespy The redesign has little to do with mail, they are trying to stuff their other services onto the gmail page.

Ayespy

@luetage One hopes it does not impact the GMail backend AT ALL. Forcing GMail OAuth set back M3 by six months all by itself.

jdvernet

@Ayespy

Here's the official announcement thus far and as luetage stated, there's seems to be very little about mail itself, and more about trying to stuff 10 pounds of features into a five pound bag. At first blush, it looks like a complete mess. But who knows, perhaps it's more eloquent in practice? Anyway, in taking the internet's temperature about what's on the horizon, it's seems that a whole lot of people are practically begging for an alternative right about now.

Pesala

If Vivaldi can implement Peer-to-Peer file-sharing like Opera Unite, users might have a way to collaborate without sharing their data with Google, or anyone else that do not wish to share with. Zoom has also proved to be at risk of being hacked.

Blackbird

@jdvernet said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@Ayespy

... as luetage stated, there's seems to be very little about mail itself, and more about trying to stuff 10 pounds of features into a five pound bag. At first blush, it looks like a complete mess. But who knows, perhaps it's more eloquent in practice? ...

Actually, it's a five-pound bag in which everything in it passes under the nose (and through the hands) of Google, whose entire 'reason for being' is to make money off the marketing of user data in one form or another. Personally, it's not a path I'd ever choose to take...

Ayespy

@purgatori They use it because it's free, the storage is relatively huge, and Google provided it blanket promotion, just like they did Chrome. Hundreds of millions became addicted to GMail back when they still believed in "Don't be evil."

Pesala

It is a serious mistake to become addicted to any email address.

Ayespy

@Pesala And yet, when you have hundreds of customers or business contacts who contact you that way, you do. I even had a customer who kept changing email addresses every few months. I never knew who his emails were coming from, or where to send his results. After a while, I had to resist the impulse to do him physical harm.

Steffie

@purgatori Because... baa, baa, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Pesala

@Ayespy We are not talking about changing email addresses every month. Maybe every ten years, or whenever it becomes necessary. Then you email your list of contacts with the updated address, and change your email on your social media accounts.

Businesses sometimes have to move their physical address, and reprint letterheads, business cards, etc. Email is no different. Do not let anyone hold you to ransom.

lamarca

@Ayespy said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

Every time Google changes something on the GMail backend, it breaks M3 (again).

A well known Ibm product does the same, breaking many softwares during its upgrades,
the differences are, one do it intentionally.

vladrials

I miss Opera Presto (Now Vivaldi! ) so much. I started using it since version 7. It quickly became my browser of choice. What I loved about it was its comprehensive features, which were well integrated. M2 and Feeds were killer features, in my opinion.

I am very happy with the way Vivaldi is progressing. While it is not my default choice (Firefox) I am planning to switch soon once I import all my links manually (Yeah! I am like that, I don't like importers).

I am eagerly awaiting M3, Calendar and Feeds. I can then finally discard Thunderbird, Lightning and Firefox. While I desire certain improvements to Vivaldi's UI, overall I am very pleased. The developers are so responsive, just like the in the days of Presto.

Thank you! @jon and your team for a great product.

Codehunter

There are many "chrominoide" browsers which differs in UI but the entire features are the same on each. That's more a matter of taste right now. Some people says "Wah Vivaldi is a fat browser". But I say: Let it fat when it is unique. O12 was unique because of M2 and Presto. But what makes Vivaldi unique? Currently it is just another fork of Chromium with a pretty and useful UI, sure. But unique? Not really. No M3, no own renderer.

I'm aware of the impossibility to write a new engine from scratch for a small company like Vivaldi. But M3 should be feasible for a little team. The only logical explanation for the delays is that it is not being worked on with high priority. So the most important question is: Why should the Vivaldi devs work on M3 with high prio? In my opinion the answer is: The Vivaldi team doesnt see a need for unique features.

Now before someone says I have no idea what I'm talking about: I'm wrote a mail client from scratch roundabout 20 years ago. Only POP3+SMTP and standalone, not as a browser plugin (in that time, in the era of browser wars, there was no plugin API in Netscape and IE as we know today). After 8 weeks i had a mockup. 4 months later, I had a beta. Most of it was recycled code from other projects or third party code. But then I had no more time for it and not much later, M2 was introduced and was much better than my creature.

But, when I could write a mail client alone, a small team can do it too. If it was meant to be. But I think, it's not.

Ayespy

@Codehunter said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

The only logical explanation for the delays is that it is not being worked on with high priority.

This would be incorrect.

Not all "email clients" are created equal. It's relatively simple to fetch and display mail. But a full-featured client must do much, much more. M2 was such a full-featured client, and the original goal was to at least match that level of performance.

What's correct is that few developers know how to write a full-featured email client, and even fewer are conversant with email clients, databases and database operations. This led to Vivaldi starting with a very small mail team, only two developers, and only five people (if I'm remembering correctly) on the team at present. Then, too, it had to be completely integrated into Vivaldi, using the same rendering and interface processes as the browser. While it has been being written, GMail, which uses a completely non-standard structure to begin with, has been changing how its login, folder structures and folder subscriptions are handled, making it necessary to re-write parts of the client multiple times. To make matters worse, a full email client is actually much more complex than a browser. So even though it has been a top priority from day 1, it has been taking longer than expected to get done. It is in a very workable and usable state right now, and I use it as my primary mail client daily, but it is not, for certain nagging reasons, ready for public consumption yet.