We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
I'm not the one going around in your technical support forums claiming to be an "Ambassador" and calling people an angry whale.
I came to Vivaldi based upon your reputation, your web browser, email services reputation and supportive community. Apparently none of that is even remotely true and your community and your "Ambassadors" what ever that means, is apparently full of people that cannot answer questions and resort to name calling and encouraging new users to take their business somewhere else. SO I WILL!
not sure who you've interacted with but Ambassadors are human like anyone else but we also represent the browser so i understand the expectation of higher standards however we are volunteers like anyone else here unless they have a vivaldi team tag then they work at vivaldi
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I appreciate the response but we are apparently not all humans, some of us are complaining whales according to your ambassadors. This toxicity is the problem and not the Vivaldi web browser, which I actually like or liked until this interaction.
Vivaldi isn't alone in this by any means, the only thing really holding Linux back from wider adoption is Linux users struting around in technical support forums calling themselves ambassadors and looking for newbies to insult and demean.
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
I appreciate the response but we are apparently not all humans, some of us are complaining whales according to your ambassadors. This toxicity is the problem and not the Vivaldi web browser, which I actually like or liked until this interaction.
Vivaldi isn't alone in this by any means, the only thing really holding Linux back from wider adoption is Linux users struting around in technical support forums calling themselves ambassadors and looking for newbies to insult and demean.
OH its in the linux section? Im not sure who these Ambassadors are that are doing this but they arent doing their jobs correctly That Green Tag Actually Means something and if you're being mistreated by someone with An Ambassador Tag They Shouldnt be one
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@TechDocX71 DM Me
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
So let me get this straight. You open a vivaldi.net account for a business venture with the expectation that you're going to be able to share the email address with clients and for other business related communications only to discover after doing all of that (vivaldi certainly doesn't warn you when you setup your account), you find out that the only way to "access" your email is through the nebulous term "interact" for an indeterminate period of time with random users in Vivaldi's forums or Mastodon channel which have absolutely nothing what so ever to do with your business, or would aid you in operating your business? Good luck with that!
It is advised not to use our services for business/commercial purposes. Please see this thread.
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
Were is that in your terms of service?
Do you even have terms of service or is that as nebulous as your new email policy?
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@edwardp Vivaldi didnt "Release the Ambassador Army" but thats what happend in here
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
Do you even have terms of service or is that as nebulous as your new email policy?
Please see:
https://vivaldi.com/privacy/vivaldi-end-user-license-agreement/
and
https://vivaldi.com/privacy/community-terms-of-use/
and
https://vivaldi.com/privacy/code-of-conduct/Note that these specify Vivaldi and its services are only for personal use. You will also find standards that call upon community members not to use unfriendly language. You entered the community with fault-finding, and some other members reacted negatively to this. I apologize for any negativity you faced. But if you wish to make use of Vivaldi and its community, it helps to do so in a friendly and respectful fashion. I recommend this. You attract more hummingbirds with nectar than with vinegar.
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Vivaldi's Terms of Service does not prohibit personal use. The TOS even specifies what Vivaldi means by other than personal use.
You may only use the Software and Services for personal use. By way of example, this means that although You are allowed to use our Software and Services at work or within your business or organization, You are not allowed to sell, trade or resell the Software or Services for any purpose, including without limitation any use in any application service provider environment, service bureau, or time-sharing arrangements.
How your mods and ambassadors misconstrued a part-time technical writing and documentation business as being me operating as an Application Service Provider (ASP) or me attempting sell Vivaldi's email feature as my own service is maybe something you should ask your mods and ambassadors.
I came to your service based off the press that I have seen on YouTube and social media extolling the security, privacy and rich features of Vivaldi's webmail service as an alternative to subscription services and nothing on Vivaldi's homepage described your webmail service as "A goodie for active members of the community" so I signed up. When I discovered that the service described on the Vivaldi homepage was in fact a "feature" with no rational explanation of how or when a new user would ever be able to qualify, I inquired in this forum about the issue. The ambassadors and moderators that responded gave me the Terms of Service listed above and the link to Vivaldi's support page extolling the virtues of the reputation policy. When I questioned said policy, Vivaldi's friendly and allegedly helpful moderators and ambassadors called me a complaining whale and told me that if I didn't like the policy, to leave. Which I did.
I get the hive mind doesn't dig people that question "policy", or new users, or people that ask questions. I'm just saying maybe Vivaldi shouldn't advertise webmail as a service on your homepage and then have their moderators and ambassadors feelings hurt when some newbie whale questions about the nebulous terms and conditions of said policy. Also, threating someone asking questions with Code of Conduct violations because you took a forum post out of context is not a great business model either.
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Vivaldi's EULA includes:
6. You may use the Software and Services on your personal computer, including your laptop, desktop and handheld device. You may only use the Software and Services for personal use. By way of example, this means that although You are allowed to use our Software and Services at work or within your business or organization, You are not allowed to sell, trade or resell the Software or Services for any purpose, including without limitation any use in any application service provider environment, service bureau, or time-sharing arrangements
I have also emphasized within your business. It reads that the software and services can be used on a work or business computer. It does not say one can use the software and services for business/commercial purposes.
It is only for personal use. I think that's quite clear.
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@TechDocX71 I'm not seeing where Vivaldi advertises webmail. Vivaldi Mail, the mail client which is advertised, is not Vivaldi Webmail. Could you point out where Vivaldi is advertising the webmail service? Since it's not being offered out of the box, it probably should not be being advertised without the caveat that it is an earned service.
Also, who threatened you with Code of Conduct violations? Where? Mods and Ambassadors should remind users of standards, but not make threats.
Vivaldi does not hold itself out as a business support product or service, which is good, because they are totally not equipped for that, so if there is anything that presents that impression, it should be corrected. I frequently and freely make the point that my Vivaldi Browser and its built-in mail client is my office and my chief tool to run my business, but I don't use Vivaldi Webmail as my business mail - for one thing, it only has a 5GB storage capacity, which is totally insufficient for business purposes, but for another, it's Vivaldi.net, which is not the name of my business. My business email contains my business name. My business website is branded with my business name and hosted by a webhost that lets me do this. My business blog is on my business website, non on Vivaldi. Vivaldi blogs would be a singularly bad place to put a business blog. So if you want a brilliant browser, use Vivaldi, and if you want a friendly community without political debates, flame wars, spam, commercial messages, etc. and with a ton of free help, be a Vivaldi community member. And if you want a free webmail service, join one that collects and sells your data or is cluttered with ads, or both. Or, hang with the Vivaldi community for awhile, participate, play around in the Vivaldi Mastodon social community, use the sync service in the browser, etc. and you will get a private, ad-free, webmail address as a gift. For your personal use.
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That is not what Vivaldi's TOS says unless you think using the email feature as a secondary email address for client communications constitutes selling, trading, or reselling the Software or Services. Clearly you do or you're just arguing from authority as a rhetorical strategy.
It doesn't even matter anyway, vivaldi has made it clear that you do not want new users and I have already closed my account. So you do you boo.
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@TechDocX71 That's not advertising Webmail. It's the Vivaldi Mail client.
Selecting Mail on that menu displays https://vivaldi.com/features/mail/, which is the mail client.
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@TechDocX71 It's featuring the mail client, not Webmail.
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@TechDocX71 None of these have anything to do with WebMail. They are about the internally-included mail client - which you can put to use the moment you download and install the browser. I have seven email accounts set up in my Vivaldi email client.
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Ok, maybe come down to an end users level of experience for a moment.
End user opens an Office 365 Account and gets an Outlook client and Outlook.com email address as a part of the account creation process and has the expectation that they're going to be able to use the email address immediately.
End user opens a Google account and gets a Gmail client and a Gmail.com email address as a part of the account creation process and therefore has the expectation that they're going to be able to use the email address immediately and for literally every thing else they do on Google including authentication.
Same with iCloud, Zoho, etc, etc.
Then there's Vivaldi.com. The end user lands on the Vivaldi.com homepage and reads vivaldi's advertisment for their email client, so said user creates their Vivaldi.net account, generates their Vivaldi.net email address and uses said email address for literally everything on Vivaldi including authentication, browser synchronization, etc, etc but later find out that, wait for it, no webmail access to Vivaldi.net because reasons and for an indeterminate period of time.
Maybe you should have just started with telling everyone that Vivaldi.net webmail access is RSVP only for end users that don't ask too many questions or annoy the Vivaldi forum moderators or ambassadors.
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@TechDocX71 said in We’ve rolled out Two-Factor Authentication for Vivaldi accounts and a new reputation system for Vivaldi Webmail access.:
Then there's Vivaldi.com. The end user lands on the Vivaldi.com homepage and reads vivaldi's advertisment for their email client
It seems there's a confusion
At .com means the built in, not the WebMail
Or where exactly you've read it?
"You cannot know the meaning of your life until you are connected to the power that created you" · Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
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I understand the distinction between Vivaldi.com where you host and advertise the Vivaldi web browser and the Vivaldi.net site where you create your User Profile used for browser settings and bookmark synchronization, access to the support forums and Mastadon instance.
Are you suggesting that a end user is not required to generate a Vivaldi.net email address (which they must use to authenticate to User Profile settings, browser settings, bookmark synchronization, but not web mail because reasons)? Must have missed that when I started because Vivaldi's account creation process, up to and including 2FA is identical to everyone else's account creation process until you try to setup email, end up in the support forums and getting called an angry whale for asking questions and expressing frustration at the policy your moderators and ambassadors all think is just peachy (because it doesn't affect them).
