Good riddance, Internet Explorer!
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This post is deleted! -
I deleted the foregoing off-topic posts rather than fork the topic, as the posts are political in nature and certain to give offense to someone ("Don’t use content likely to offend people based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or political views.") Hence, they are not in keeping with Vivaldi community rules. Sorry, everyone.
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let safari = new(IE);
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Discussions on which browser is good and bad in case of morality and financial resources is useless.
Mozilla is pseudo-free software, depends on Mozilla Company, Mozilla Foundation and its local fund filled with money by monopolistic companies and people who want to reduce their taxes. That is nice for Firefox & Co. users.
Brave? An other company with much resources.
Edge, Chromium and other of Chrome's children, fully bound, to run in which direction Google wants to force them.The browsers fights to be free software is lost since many years. Market rules.
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@DoctorG said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
Edge, Chromium and other of Chrome's children, fully bound, to run in which direction Google wants to force them.
I think the picture is not this simple. The current state of user tracking is a bad thing, I think we all can agree on this. But, and this is a very important but, before Chrome hit the market, the web technology was prehistoric.
Mozilla and Opera made great browsers, but the platform was nothing compared to what it is now. There were basically no common standards. The W3C was a joke. We had to use plugins for almost everything, which were full of security holes, and consumed a lot of hardware resources.
Sure, Google needed the technology to gain more users, to collect more data, to make more money, but doing so, they developed a lot of awesome stuff, which brought us the platform independet world. Not just it does not matter which browser you use, you can do the same work, get the same entertainment on every operating system.
Is it the best thing that Google keeps shaping the web almost alone? Absolutely not. But someone had to take the wheel, and since it's a costly process, no nonprofit organization could have done it.
I don't think the current state of the web is ideal, but it's not black and white. Google is not just pure evil.
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@Nekomajin , I would gladly use Chrome and other Google products, certainly of very good quality and with services that have no alternatives, if it weren't for their business model and the surveillance of users that even reads their email. An absolute no go
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@jon said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
[I]n reality, Edge is also just Internet Explorer with a new name. Yes, there is significant changes in the underlying code, but the real reason for the name change is because the old browser was just so unpopular.
I've been using Edge as my secondary browser (I have an iPhone and Vivaldi's not on iOS), and I don't see much resemblance to Internet Explorer. But I do see resemblance to Vivaldi. When I looked through Edge's settings and features, I was pleasantly surprised! It's not Vivaldi, but it might be the next best thing.
There are even a few ways where Edge surpasses Vivaldi (e.g. voice-search and text-to-speech). Jon: You might want to try out Edge some more, and then steal some Edge features for Vivaldi. Browsers have stollen plenty of Opera and Vivaldi features over the years, turnabout is fair play!
Sadly they have not changed their ways, so they are still trying to force people to use their browser.
On that we agree! I don't see much resemblance between Edge and IE themselves, but I do see resemblance in how Microsoft pushes them on people.
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@Eggcorn This is an old blog post. Edge used to be a renamed IE in a time when IE had lost all credibility, this was back then when they still used their own engine.
There are even a few ways where Edge suppresses Vivaldi (e.g. voice-search and text-to-speech).
Surpasses? Well, how is that surprising? But that’s not something that can be copied.
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@luetage The post I was replying to was from seven hours ago. And I meant to say "surpasses".
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@jon Edge isn't really IE with a new name... although they've included the IE rendering engine as a second-choice option for certain websites - with the majority rendered by the Chrome engine, like Vivaldi - Edge can't actually deal with all the IE-only pages relying on ActiveX etc.
So in my case, this means the only place I actually need IE (my security camera) really doesn't work in Edge (or on my phone or on my work laptops). Very annoying then that Microsoft have been making it harder and harder to just open IE to check the camera without a million pop-ups and opt-outs to click through.
With the latest announcements it looks like I'm actually going to have to install a virtual machine running old Windows and old IE if I ever want to look at the camera again! And from what I've read I am not alone... many security cameras and many older industrial/administration tools are in the same boat.
(Edit: I can appreciate the irony here that for years I was arguing against the pushing of a proprietary and unsafe ActiveX system and I'm now arguing for them to keep access to a proprietary and unsafe ActiveX system... lolz!)
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@mossman , according to what I've read on the Verge, although IE is no longer maintained, it can be used until at least next year. It is clear that ActiveX is a security problem, but if it is only about accessing your camera.
Perhaps it may also be possible to ask the technical support of your camera (if you have one) to maybe have a solution, they surely also know that IE is going to be eliminated.
Maybe this site also can help
https://comparium.app/blog/internet-explorer-emulator/ -
@Catweazle said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
@mossman , according to what I've read on the Verge, although IE is no longer maintained, it can be used until at least next year. It is clear that ActiveX is a security problem, but if it is only about accessing your camera.
Perhaps it may also be possible to ask the technical support of your camera (if you have one) to maybe have a solution, they surely also know that IE is going to be eliminated.
Maybe this site also can help
https://comparium.app/blog/internet-explorer-emulator/Actually, I just came back to the forum to say that after a bit more digging it seems Edge can use ActiveX after all...
Not sure why I couldn't get it to work before(+), but the website of a similar security camera(++) had a help page detailing Edge settings - and now my work laptop attempts to download the necessary plugin (but fails as I'm not admin). I will set this up on our own computers later(+++)...
(+) quite strange as I had collected several bookmarks on the subject.
(++) the security system I'm using is quite old and the manufacturer's website doesn't seem to talk about this... I just found the firmware update file but it's from 2016, so not likely to help
(+++) my main concern was how to check the home while on holiday, since we can't use our phones or the Linux netbook we normally take with us - so we're still stuck borrowing a Windows PC with Edge (if I note down those settings somewhere)Edit: looked at your link - I'd already found this kind of solution but these sites are limited to X number of minutes/accesses per month so it doesn't really help.
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@mossman , there are also some extension in the Chrome Store, but all with the same problem, trials and limited free uses, no OpenSource alternatives.
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Funny how this discussion has turned to "how to make IE work again"
@mossman See:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode
https://www.pcworld.com/article/632674/how-to-use-internet-explorer-mode-in-microsoft-edge.htmlMight help.
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@Pathduck , yes, the problem is that ou need admin rights to do this, a solution for homeusers, but not so in the work PC, if you want t control your security cam.
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@Catweazle I was assuming since @mossman seemed desperate enough to start thinking about installing VMs, this must be a system with more permissions
If you're at work -- yes, it's a problem. Many enterprises have already configured this, and cannot be controlled by the user. If you know the IT people and they're nice enough, maybe if you ask politely to add the site to the IE mode list. If they're the regular sysadmin types ... forget it
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@Catweazle
But you don't have to. There are free and safe alternatives for almost all Google services. But they only exist, because Google developed the foundation of the necessary technology. -
@Nekomajin , anyway, I think that with the IE RIP, compatibility problems are only temporary, until the market adapt it, same with other old formats.
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@doctorg: I was merely attempting to highlight the fact that Apple purposefully keep their Safari browser old/hobbled for their own monopolistic purposes, and keep Safari as the only option on their garden-walled devices. Reminds me of a certain Redmond-based company's practices up until yesterday. Plus ça change!
Mozilla is a very compromised entity which is mostly funded via Google. They've been on my naughty list ever since the way they threw Brendan Eich out - disgraceful behaviour. Unfortunately, for now at least, we need them to be around.
We need a non-Silicon Valley tech company making browsers - it is vital, and as you said "the market rules", and it has made a space for Vivaldi.
Viva Vivaldi. -
Off-topic: Vivaldi Team, why do I need to allow 3rd-party cookies to log in to this forum?
No such issue with the webmail.