Any word on M3? (internal mail client)

jon

@jdvernet said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon

Oh, okay.
Sorry, I should read the thread through before my "really annoying" comment. It's just the entire hook for me (and I suspect for others too) will be the ability to not have to swap programs (and it seems not leaving the browser is why many people put up with the irritating aspects of webmail). So the prospect of having to swap programs to view older e-mails was especially irksome to me.

Anyway, thank you for seeing this through. If it's pedigree is any indication, I'm sure it will be a great client, and will make Vivaldi more attractive than it already is to a good number of users.

Do not worry. We will add import as well. Just a question of allowing you to play with M3 before import is ready. If you like M2, you are going to love M3.

Cheers,
Jon.

jon

@jumpsq said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@iAN-CooG This is not a general truth, but M2 is just the superiour client to all those that you have mentioned (at least for me). I want a successor with the features of M2 and with added GPG and possibly S/Mime support, with even more and more improved features. That's why I am eager to try M3, because I expect it to be a decent software with decent functionality.

One of the reason that we felt the need to make M3 is just that the other mail clients did not have the functionality that we needed. M3 does have most everything I need already and the goal is to add any things that you guys will find wanting. We also have our preferences and the goal is for M3 to satisfy all those needs with a flexible UI, just like the browser.

Cheers,
Jon.

Steffie

@jon Though i used [& loved] Opera 9 - 12, i never used M2, somehow i ignorantly failed to even know of it [dunno in hindsight how i was so monumentally blind]. Reading over the past five years the numerous references to M2 i now feel a real pang of loss, ha, & with all this talk of M3 a real sense of keen anticipation.

For my user-case though, M3 could only become a real daily tool for me, as opposed to a novel plaything, if it allows me to ditch Thunderbird+Lightning by:

Importing my decades of TB mail & accounts [POP3].
Having a Calendaring & Tasks Management capability at least on par with Lightning but hopefully [much] better.
Importing my decades of Lightning Calendar & Tasks data.

I'm a pessimist [about everything], so i expect to be disappointed. However the great thing about pessimism is that one is either proven frequently correct, or otherwise gifted with lovely surprises.

jon

@Steffie said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon Though i used [& loved] Opera 9 - 12, i never used M2, somehow i ignorantly failed to even know of it [dunno in hindsight how i was so monumentally blind]. Reading over the past five years the numerous references to M2 i now feel a real pang of loss, ha, & with all this talk of M3 a real sense of keen anticipation.

For my user-case though, M3 could only become a real daily tool for me, as opposed to a novel plaything, if it allows me to ditch Thunderbird+Lightning by:

Importing my decades of TB mail & accounts [POP3].

Having a Calendaring & Tasks Management capability at least on par with Lightning but hopefully [much] better.

Importing my decades of Lightning Calendar & Tasks data.

I'm a pessimist [about everything], so i expect to be disappointed. However the great thing about pessimism is that one is either proven frequently correct, or otherwise gifted with lovely surprises.

@Steffie , for me a really good mail client is a must. M2 was that, but it also had its weaknesses. It had no calendar. With M3 we have tried to take things a step further. We are still at an early stage and as mentioned before, the first TP release will not have import. We will, however, add import and we will add whatever else you may find wanting.

For me Thunderbird never did it. It was not just a question of being built in, but it was also a question of what functionality mattered to me. You will see that when you get to play with M3. I hope you will love it as much as I do.

Cheers,
Jon.

Steffie

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

we will add whatever else you may find wanting

For a moment i allowed myself a frisson of excitement, choosing to interpret this as a Yes to my list above. Thereafter, my usual pessimism took over again. I truly look forward to being proven wrong, teehee.

Btw, i really appreciate your active community involvement here; it is so nice that we have it.

fifonik

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

We will add import as well. Just a question of allowing you to play with M3 before import is ready. If you like M2, you are going to love M3.

Thanks Jon!

I'm also waiting M3 (and using M2 standalone).
I'd expect that with import ready more people will be able to test some real life usage scenarios.
Search (my work outlook is painfully slow on search), how labels work for many messages, how fast everything in the program (if it is slow on large DB some DB changes might be required), how DB maintenance works, etc.
Not sure if "blank" DB is really useful for testing.

jon

@fifonik said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

We will add import as well. Just a question of allowing you to play with M3 before import is ready. If you like M2, you are going to love M3.

Thanks Jon!

I'm also waiting M3 (and using M2 standalone).
I'd expect that with import ready more people will be able to test some real life usage scenarios.
Search (my work outlook is painfully slow on search), how labels work for many messages, how fast everything in the program (if it is slow on large DB some DB changes might be required), how DB maintenance works, etc.
Not sure if "blank" DB is really useful for testing.

@fifonik , for those that use IMAP and have all their stuff on server, you can test the database. I have more than 500k mails, for example, so I have been able to test things quite well with a decent size mailbox.

Cheers,
Jon.

jon

@Steffie said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

we will add whatever else you may find wanting

For a moment i allowed myself a frisson of excitement, choosing to interpret this as a Yes to my list above. Thereafter, my usual pessimism took over again. I truly look forward to being proven wrong, teehee.

Btw, i really appreciate your active community involvement here; it is so nice that we have it.

@Steffie , I think your list looks reasonable. Basically to get import working, which is our goal, although not for the TP. Our goal is also to make the calendar very good. It is quite different to other calendars in some important ways, but I will not say more on that yet.

Cheers,
Jon.

fifonik

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

for those that use IMAP and have all their stuff on server, you can test the database.

I thought that for IMAP the search performed by server.
Thanks anyway. I hope we'll see it sooner than later.

Komposten

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

I have more than 500k mails

jon

@fifonik said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

for those that use IMAP and have all their stuff on server, you can test the database.

I thought that for IMAP the search performed by server.
Thanks anyway. I hope we'll see it sooner than later.

If you prefetch all the mail, they will be local and can be searched locally.

Cheers,
Jon.

felagund

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

If you prefetch all the mail, they will be local and can be searched locally.

Cheers,
Jon.

Wow. If mail ever arrives on mobile, that will be sweet. The clients that are cannot handle locally fetched 10k! How much GB are even 500k mails :-D?

jumpsq

@felagund Hardly depends on whether you also fetch and store your attachments. For me, the median for a mail is around 9kB and the mean possibly around 60kB per mail. Would be around 30GB for 500k mails.

kahukura

@jumpsq That amount of disk space should give a good test case for the performance of the underlying Engine, DB, Indexing and such.

burnout426

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

If you prefetch all the mail, they will be local and can be searched locally.

Ah, so like M2, no IMAP server-side searching.

felagund

@burnout426 said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

Ah, so like M2, no IMAP server-side searching.

Actually, searching-wise is the one thing where Gmail is superior to M2 (and it also keeps better track of threads, but displays them poorly), I sometimes use it for some complicated searches and I get results I do not get with M2. But I just might better know gmail's way of searching. Or it might be that it allows fuzzy searches (so it displays "dogs" when I search for "dog" - which is hugely important in my native language, where most words as used in a sentence use inflection suffixes)

@jumpsq said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@felagund Hardly depends on whether you also fetch and store your attachments. For me, the median for a mail is around 9kB and the mean possibly around 60kB per mail. Would be around 30GB for 500k mails.

I have around 30 GB with all the roughly 25k "converstaions" in Gmail (how can you count e-mails in M2?) - so I would expect that to be around 80k mails. But I store all the attachments.

derDay

@felagund said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

how can you count e-mails in M2?

hover at Inbox and you should get a tooltip with the number

felagund

@derDay said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@felagund said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

how can you count e-mails in M2?

hover at Inbox and you should get a tooltip with the number

Ha, 250k! (some are doubled though due to forwarding, I should fix my IMAP setup)

jon

@jumpsq said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@felagund Hardly depends on whether you also fetch and store your attachments. For me, the median for a mail is around 9kB and the mean possibly around 60kB per mail. Would be around 30GB for 500k mails.

That is pretty close to what my mail takes in total on disk.

Janjoore

Since the first technical preview of the vivaldi browser I'm looking forwards to the vivaldi email client M3. I use vivaldi all that time. Sometimes I needed an other browser But now Vivaldi is the only browser I use. I was also a user of opera M2. After every stable release i hope M3 will appear in th next snapshot. Until now it was not the time for it. But
reading this topic I think I have to be patient.