Custom Speed Dial thumbnails – Vivaldi Browser snapshot 1.10.862.6
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@QuHno
I know it would be a huge task, but I don't see many features from the outside, that would be affected by a change like this.There was a time when native window design replaced the UI hacks, but it seems that they are constantly gaining more and more territory again. Sadly.
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@g_bartsch Next snapshot will just ignore F5 reload on any custom thumbnail. To reload them, you need to explicitly select reload on the speed dial entry.
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@derday: Oh that's right it's Super Mario Run! Thanks!
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@QuHno It's not just a matter of "looking native" but behaving like a native app as well. You can't "fake it" or emulate it because you'll never get it 100% right. The whole purpose of using native widgets is so that you don't have to fake anything. In the macOS world, Camino lacked many features compared to Firefox but still had a loyal following because its platform integration was superb. It actually felt fast and lightweight too because it didn't implement its UI with XUL... and many Mac users liked it better because it didn't implement any of its UI with XUL.
Right now, on macOS, Vivaldi is somewhat broken from both an aesthetic and functional perspective. Native widgets may or may not be the answer but Vivaldi still has to behave properly in every manner on the platform. As longtime users, we're used to its quirks. For new users, it makes a really good first impression but can turn them off when it misbehaves in some really annoying ways.
It's like that kid in the restaurant... nicely dressed, quiet, well mannered, doesn't run run around... then he goes to the salad bar, grabs a pickle with his hands, takes a bite, doesn't like it, and puts it right back.
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@xyzzy I understand that this is totally a personal preference and a matter of taste, but I find Vivaldi a beautiful application, I love the minimal UI design and clean language, choosing platform integration would throw that away right out the window, with all the work and investment made along with it.
Besides that it would basically triple the work necessary to maintain the UI. Right now you design the UI based on HTML+CSS+JS and it is mostly expected to work the same across all supported platforms, save for any occasional bugs or incompatibilities.
Native UI would require writing and testing and debugging the UI for three entirely distinct platforms (Win, Mac, Linux), plus different versions like Windows 7/8/10, KDE, Gnome, other desktop environments, different themes or combinations the user might have.
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@duarte.framos As I understand it, devs also save hours each day, first of all, not having to figure out how to mold the features needed/wanted out of native elements and second, not having to wait forever for a native-elements build to compile. Development using web technologies is an order of magnitude faster than trying to reconfigure native elements to match the vision they are trying to execute.
When every day the browser remains unfinished is money out of Jon's pocket, one can understand the "need for speed."
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@duarte.framos I don't disagree at all, and actually made the exact same points that you just did in a previous post. The reason we have the awesome browser that we have today is because Vivaldi took a platform-neutral approach.
That said, on macOS, there are a lot of things that look and feel out of place on the platform because Vivaldi tries but doesn't really conform to platform norms. It also lacks some of the basic platform integration that macOS users expect. Other "non-native" browsers do a better job of it and this is something that Vivaldi should aspire to do better as well. These "little" things matter, and that's the point that other users were simply trying to make.
To some, having a truly native look and feel is also just as important as it is for others to be able to apply a wooden veneer to the entire browser chrome, or to have Vivaldi "work like it does on Windows" on all platforms.
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@xyzzy Currently there are only two minor problems on osx I feel. The absence of switching to the desktop Vivaldi is on, when you open a link from another one. The greyed out/disabled minimize button after being in fullscreen. Other issues I apparently don't care about, I wouldn't call it a problem overall. If you want a browser that is made for the osx environment, your best bet is Safari.
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@luetage I'm not bashing Vivaldi. Quite the opposite. I want Vivaldi to grow and gain marketshare. However, as an advocate for the Mac community and the Vivaldi community as a whole, I'm simply agreeing with valid points that others are trying to make, including yours.
You have your issues that you would like to see fixed. My primary wish list consists of a Bookmarks menu, for colours and gradients to be faithful to the native OS, and to be able to set Corner Rounding in themes so that buttons and the URL bar can look right without other elements (that should be square) looking like squircles. Some want better macOS platform integration -- e.g. Services integration, Keychain integration, to be able to input emojis with Control-Command-Space, for Data Detectors to work properly... Others want Vivaldi to work with their third-party window manager, or for windows to simply maintain their correct size when you open a new one.
Some of the "native widget" advocates here could be Windows users too, but I understand and empathize as a Mac user as well.
The key to making any product better is to focus on your strengths and to improve on your weaknesses. If you don't, you'll die a death from 1000 paper cuts.
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@Ayespy
I see all the reason against a native interface, but it does not have to be all native. Most of the features are connected to the engine and the internal pages. That's where the JS approach is very good. But a native window frame, including the scrollbars and native menus are not something they change every day. The only other component are the toolbars, but the appearance of those can be mimicked quite well even with CSS. I don't think it's such a huge task. -
@xyzzy
It has the same problems on Win7 too. -
@Nekomajin A developer could explain it better, but Vivaldi-level configurability with native elements is, exactly, "such a huge task."
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@pettern Love it and am thankful how responsive you were on this. Can't find another software creator like Vivaldi.
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@xyzzy said in Custom Speed Dial thumbnails – Vivaldi Browser snapshot 1.10.862.6:
To some, having a truly native look and feel is also just as important as it is for others to be able to apply a wooden veneer to the entire browser chrome, or to have Vivaldi "work like it does on Windows" on all platforms.
Only a side note:
It does not look and feel 100% native on Windows too. That's one of the disadvantages of the approach they took and some people might not like it or miss something that a native approach would have.
The big advantage is, that it works like web pages: More or less everywhere the same (maybe apart from bugs that are only triggered on one platform but not the other - but those are bugs and as such a completely different matter). -
@Ayespy
What can you configure on menus and scrollbars? -
I do not understand the following:
Remove Winsparkle from Vivaldi and always use the UpdateNotifier for updating (VB-26833)
But when I updated today it looks like you still use Winsparkle. So does this mean that you do not use Winsparkle for the update notifications anymore but in general still use it?
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@Gwen-Dragon
OK, no temp folder, but how would you be able to have the autoupdater run unless you had vivaldi processes also running? Doesn't make senseHowever, just got autonotified of an update, and it's worked as normal - tho' not a delta, but a full dl.
Whatever the problem was, its "gone away" without my making further changes.
thanks for your attention anyway
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@wojcieche: thank you
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@geertlp168 Yeah, the Devs all got together & decided to do all that just to specifically piss YOU off. Success! The plan is, one day after you've slammed the door shut, all the goodies arrive. Bye!
PS - All the rest of us clearly are merely loony masochists by using V, given the massive disaster you've portrayed. Unless, of course, you're wrong...
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@geertlp168 The last time you posted anywhere here was back during the Vivaldi 1.2 release cycle. No specific problem reports, no requests for any assistance. Based on your words, you'd think that Vivaldi would be totally unusable but that's clearly not the case.
If you're experiencing a problem with Vivaldi on Linux Mint, please kindly post in the Linux forum. Others will either confirm your issue (and assist you in filing a bug report) or help you to resolve it.
Vivaldi is not like other corporations that release features, ready or not, based on a schedule.
Lastly, if you still feel that strongly and would like to close your account, you'll find the directions on how to do that here:
https://help.vivaldi.com/article/delete-account-on-vivaldi-net/Thanks.