Do you think 'Debian' is beginner-friendly?

[ingolftopf]

I often hear that Debian is not beginner-friendly, that it is too complicated.
Ubuntu is easier for beginners, how do you see it?

[DoctorG]

@ingolftopf I used Debian KDE on my office PCs since some years after Ubuntu was a troublemaker on non-gamer GPU hardware

Ubuntu? I dislike GNOME and its bad software to manage settings, and Wayland is sort of unstable for me.

You can use Manjaro + KDE, that is nice and easy to manage.

You should downloads some Live-DVDs and test soem distributions before installing.

[ingolftopf]

@DoctorG Thank you for your opinion.

I have known Ubuntu and Debian for some time.
I think Debian is also more suitable for beginners.
I like the philosophy behind it and you can choose between stable, testing and unstable.

Very suitable for newcomers is 'Q4OS',
https://q4os.org/

a Debian that can be loaded onto a Windows computer like a Windows programme.

[ingolftopf]

@DoctorG
There is even a Debian for children and young people:
'Debian Jr.'
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr

[stardepp]

@ingolftopf I can highly recommend Ubuntu Mate.

[ingolftopf]

@stardepp Unfortunately, you cannot install this like a Windows programme, which makes it a bit more complicated.

[stardepp]

@ingolftopf But Ubuntu Mate is very easy to install.

[npro]

@ingolftopf said in Do you think 'Debian' is beginner-friendly?:

I think Debian is also more suitable for beginners.

To answer in one sentence, no it's not, otherwise no Ubuntu would have existed and reigning supreme all those years, and being responsible (as the entry point) for the 2nd wave (which was the biggest) of new GNU/Linux users in the first place.
From handling (free & proprietary) drivers, non-free software, external repos, having 3 different package managers, obsolete packages and much more Debian is not exactly beginner-friendly for the desktop, or you can try persuading a beginner going through all the Debian manual before starting using it

I like the philosophy behind it and you can choose between stable, testing and unstable.

the internet says:

Between testing and Sid you should use Sid, but neither is a rolling release. Neither has security team coverage; package maintainers will provide security updates via new versions, but there's a mandatory migration delay to testing for at least a couple days. But if there's an ongoing transition or if you're unable to update for whatever reason both could be left vulnerable.

Sid also gets slushy during release freezes (which are usually ~6 months long roughly every 2 years) and then churns like crazy after the stable release.
If it's for work, you should be using a released version of Debian or Ubuntu. Testing/unstable are not suitable for a production environment.

Debian FAQ states:

Q: How is security handled for unstable?
A: Security for unstable is primarily handled by package maintainers, not by the Debian Security Team. Although the security team may upload high-urgency security-only fixes when maintainers are noticed to be inactive, support for stable will always have priority. If you want to have a secure (and stable) server you are strongly encouraged to stay with stable.

Q: How is security handled for testing?
A: Security for testing benefits from the security efforts of the entire project for unstable. However, there is a minimum two-day migration delay, and sometimes security fixes can be held up by transitions. The Security Team helps to move along those transitions holding back important security uploads, but this is not always possible and delays may occur. Especially in the months after a new stable release, when many new versions are uploaded to unstable, security fixes for testing may lag behind. If you want to have a secure (and stable) server you are strongly encouraged to stay with stable.

Also because it's relevant to the above, Ubuntu wiki states:

Ubuntu is currently divided into four components: main, restricted, universe and multiverse. All binary packages in main and restricted are supported by the Ubuntu Security team for the life of an Ubuntu release, while binary packages in universe and multiverse are supported by the Ubuntu community.

Basically this means that all other DEs than the default that are making the different L,K,X,M flavors and which are residing under universe and multiverse are not maintained security-wise by the official Ubuntu security team, so someone would be better served with Fedora in that regard. I remember having read about a vulnerability in Thunar iirc (the file manager, not some obscure program nobody uses) that took way too long to be patched in Lubuntu, Xubuntu etc.

[guigirl]

Q: Do you think 'Debian' is beginner-friendly?

A: No, definitely not. IMO raw Debian is a poor match for a Nix-Noob, as it assumes too much pre-existing Nix-general & Debian-specific knowledge, & requires the new user to have to configure stuff that most will struggle with. An implicit confirmation, IMO, that raw D is not noob-friendly, is the existence of hand-holding Debian spins, eg Sparky, MX, or even the new Titan.

[Aaron]

A classic drool question

[Eggcorn]

@ingolftopf In my limited experience: Desktop environment matters a lot more than distribution.

[Catweazle]

@ingolftopf l , distros in general are not as beginner friendly as Windows when it comes to file handling, but you don't need to be a CERN scientist to get your head around them pretty quickly.
Of course there are also differences in the different distros. For a novice in the Linux world, perhaps one of the best alternatives could be Q4OS (Debian), with a UI very similar to Windows, it can even be installed as if it were a simple application with a Windows installer.
One step further is WindowsFX (LinuxFX), which perfectly mimics the Windows 10/11 UI, and even allows you to use Windows programs.

[Eggcorn]

@Catweazle said in Do you think 'Debian' is beginner-friendly?:

One step further is WindowsFX (LinuxFX), which perfectly mimics the Windows 10/11 UI, and even allows you to use Windows programs.

Nothing wrong with a Windows-like desktop environment, for people who want that. But to officially call the product "WindowsFX", and use the Windows logo the way they do on their website: That's unprofessional and misleading! It makes it look like it's Windows, not Linux.

[DoctorG]

@Eggcorn A OS producer who steals designs and logos, violates others property, and pretends his Linux to be a replacement for Windows 11 is not really a serious.

[Catweazle]

@Eggcorn , I have only added it to show the spectrum of the different distros to allow use for the most reluctant newbies.
Personally, I think that Q4OS is the most appropriate distro for a novice to enter the Linux world, showing that Debian does not have to be difficult to handle for a user accustomed to Windows.
A few years ago, also as a Linux newbie, I used Kubuntu and I don't remember having a problem using it right away.

[Eggcorn]

@DoctorG "Not really serious" is an understatement! It's like the coworker who steals other people's lunches. The real problem isn't your lunch disappearing from the refrigerator, but the sticky-fingered coworker doing more serious underhanded things!

In other words: This unprofessionalism makes me instantly distrust this so-called "Windows"FX.

[Aaron]

To learn Linux, you must first completely forget everything about Windows
Going into Linux with Windows habits is a disaster
I've seen too many people with root accounts doing everything

[Catweazle]

@Aaron , it depends on what you want to use it for, if, as perhaps most users use an OS for what it is, as a platform to navigate, some office automation and little else, deep down it is irrelevant if you use it as you would use Windows, in this case all OS are handled identically.
When I used Kubuntu for a few years, the only difference with Windows that I have noticed was the handling of files and directories, although I have not seen it as 'alien' either.
I also did not have to use the console, more than a few times, which on the other hand is not so different from the Windows one and only differs from the commands used.

[npro]

@Catweazle said in Do you think 'Debian' is beginner-friendly?:

which on the other hand is not so different from the Windows one and only differs from the commands used.

ehm yes it is, in Linux being UNIX-like (and the de-facto "modern" UNIX for some 20+ years) the terminal/console is an integral part of the OS (teletype terminals in the '70s) so you can reach the deepest depths of the kernel and manipulate everything, (you could turn your PC into a furniture or a brick if you 'd want to) due also to the monolithic kernel architecture allowing that, MS Windows on the other hand which started as a tiling window manager on top of DOS, a single-user, single-tasking, not network aware OS didn't need all that stuff so command.com and later cmd.exe were practically a joke, and even powershell (their recent attempt replacing cmd.exe because the industry was basically fed up with the M$ trash), which is pretty different, it's mostly a "scripting environment" for performing some remote admin tasks and a configuration tool, doesn't provide anywhere that similar (scary) depth of control. Besides the fact that is uses a more complex syntax, no MS Windows user will ever use that thing, and MS support does not even use it for troubleshooting, while in Linux the terminal is the standard universal way to solve issues, and it's pretty understandable too, since the concept of UNIX was simplicity over over-engineering to begin with.

Also, MS Windows never cared fixing its famous catastrophic DLL-hell, they just decided to use static libraries everywhere from NT and on (which are responsible for the immense bloat and insecurity of the OS), so it never had a proper package manager for installing/removing/maintaining software like Linux, only lately there are some (community-based iirc) attempts to create one, named "chocolatey" , most probably because they want everyone to download stuff from their Windows Store, being 30 years late to the party, while having infected every possible PC around the globe with BSODs, malware and viruses, so you can add the powerful commands of those package managers to the differences with cmd.exe or powershell too.

Just sayin.

[guigirl]

@npro