The 4-year challenge

Para-Noid

@AnrDaemon Normally I'd keep my mouth shut but you seem to be misleading yourself. Items in quotes are just that, quotes.

Quote..."The most customizable browser out there (install and tweak away)." Oh yeah. Vivaldi is just that.

Quote..."The browser that does not track you (our business is building the browser, not how you use it)." Very true.

Quote..."The browser with the most amazing community (350 000 strong to be more precise)."
Your own reply and I quote..."Does that help me browse internet? No. Irrelevant." The community as a whole does indeed help you browse better. So this point is very relevant.

Quote..."The browser that reflects what our users want (and not the agenda of investors pushing for profit)." Vivaldi very much does reflect the wants of their users. That said, your own reply and I quote word for word..."Except two most demanded features, two icons of security that Opera 12 offered to their users, are yet to be implemented." If you are implying M3 and a RSS reader, you're correct. However, Vivaldi is working on them. "Two icons of security" (?) I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote..."1/4. Not the best score." Honestly, I see it as 4/4. A really good score. Fantastic really.

M3 and a RSS reader? I can wait for a finished and polished product. I want features built with the quality Vivaldi is known for.

Catweazle

@Para-Noid said in The 4-year challenge:

@AnrDaemon Normally I'd keep my mouth shut but you seem to be misleading yourself. Items in quotes are just that, quotes.

Quote..."The most customizable browser out there (install and tweak away)." Oh yeah. Vivaldi is just that.

Quote..."The browser that does not track you (our business is building the browser, not how you use it)." Very true.

Quote..."The browser with the most amazing community (350 000 strong to be more precise)."
Your own reply and I quote..."Does that help me browse internet? No. Irrelevant." The community as a whole does indeed help you browse better. So this point is very relevant.

Quote..."The browser that reflects what our users want (and not the agenda of investors pushing for profit)." Vivaldi very much does reflect the wants of their users. That said, your own reply and I quote word for word..."Except two most demanded features, two icons of security that Opera 12 offered to their users, are yet to be implemented." If you are implying M3 and a RSS reader, you're correct. However, Vivaldi is working on them. "Two icons of security" (?) I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote..."1/4. Not the best score." Honestly, I see it as 4/4. A really good score. Fantastic really.

M3 and a RSS reader? I can wait for a finished and polished product. I want features built with the quality Vivaldi is known for.

It is true that Vivaldi in some tests is not the fastest, but in my opinion this is not what really matters, if one or another browser is 1/10 sec faster, that in practice is not important, if on the other hand It does not offer me the functionality of Vivaldi.

fantajuice

2014

2019
Had just switched to Chrome back in 2014 from Firefox due to some unusual issues. Otherwise I'd have been on Firefox until I started using Vivaldi a couple months back.

nstoyanov73

Hello.
I remember I change Opera with Vivaldi in the beginning. But Vivaldi didn't work well yet. I tried it a few more times through the years and now I hope to stop looking for "my" browser.
Wish you luck and a lot of anniversaries.

Para-Noid

@nstoyanov73 Hi! Have you tried the latest stable version? The stable version is very stable and is what many users well....use. The snapshot version may have some bugs to be ironed out. For the most part snapshots are reasonably stable.

https://vivaldi.com/ (The bottom of the page has download links for Windows, Mac and Linux)
https://vivaldi.com/blog/snapshots/ (Has blog posts about snapshots)

Dr.Flay

4 years ago: Firefox, Opera 12 and Vivaldi
Now: Vivaldi and occasionally FF to use some of the plugins.

kahukura

O 3.xx .. O 12.17
<lots of crap in between>
Vivaldi since, dunno when - we just became friends over time.

Kobi

Google Chrome back then, currently using Microsoft Edge (anxious for blink update).

Vivaldi is a good browser, but it's not there for me:

Resource usage is inconsistent (tends to be more resource hungry than Chrome in some instances).
The settings are a mix of Vivaldi and Chrome pages (with some settings being override on the Vivaldi Pages, every setting should be ported to the Vivaldi Pages).
Future plans to add bloat like Webmail (I want a clean and light browser, and option to not install those extra features in the future would be a long way).
Lacks proper WebExtensions Support (even simple extensions have problems working at 100%).
The updates are not stable enough yet, with always new bugs and issues reaching the stable channel (most of them tend to be minimal and won't affect the browser usage, but I would rather not have regressions in stable releases).

Of course this is just my opinion, you people do with the browser whatever you want. I know lots of people are okay with everything I said above and I respect them.

kahukura

@Kobi Be patient as good things will last and grow over time. There is a reason Vivaldi exists and has an ever growing user base.
Mail is NOT bloat, it is wanted by many but not accepted by all. It will have no impact to the general browsing experience for sure.

Para-Noid

@Kobi said in The 4-year challenge:

Resource usage is inconsistent (tends to be more resource hungry than Chrome in some instances).

The settings are a mix of Vivaldi and Chrome pages (with some settings being override on the Vivaldi Pages, every setting should be ported to the Vivaldi Pages).

Future plans to add bloat like Webmail (I want a clean and light browser, and option to not install those extra features in the future would be a long way).

Lacks proper WebExtensions Support (even simple extensions have problems working at 100%).

The updates are not stable enough yet, with always new bugs and issues reaching the stable channel (most of them tend to be minimal and won't affect the browser usage, but I would rather not have regressions in stable releases).

Of course this is just my opinion, you people do with the browser whatever you want. I know lots of people are okay with everything I said above and I respect them.

Vivaldi is known to use less resources than Chrome. Multiple independent tests have proven this. (You can Google this.)
Some settings are more logically placed in a "Chrome" environment.
I don't see M3 as being bloatware. (Do you have some inside information the rest of us don't have?)
I have yet to see any major issues concerning extensions. Third party extensions have their own child board on the forums.
The updates are plenty stable. Bugs will happen in "any" software. Snapshots can be by nature buggy.

I cannot live my life based on opinions. I live my life according to facts. The only fact about Chrome I know is that Chrome loads pages faster than Vivaldi. Vivaldi respects their users privacy while Chrome does not. A user can customize Vivaldi tons more than Chrome. Edge couldn't get their version of Opera to work now MS is going to try Chromium. Who knows where Edge will be six months from now.

I wish people would get their facts straight before smearing/trolling Vivaldi.

kahukura

@Para-Noid Give them time they need to understand what's different to the other browsers.

luetage

@Para-Noid

That's highly unlikely, since both browsers use the same engine and Vivaldi has the "disadvantage" of being built upon web technologies. Now I wouldn't see this as a disadvantage at all, since it enables us to do all the custom modifications, but in terms of resource usage and speed of UI it certainly is. At best resource usage will be equal to Chrome on same chromium version.
The Vivaldi devs have hinted at combined settings in the past. The split settings are annoying me too and somewhere down the road they will hopefully be joined. It's a valid "complaint".

Para-Noid

@luetage I probably should have qualified my response to #2 as "hopefully the Vivaldi devs will combine all settings in one place." Even though V has come a long way it is still "under construction". As you deftly put it "hinted" can be a long way from reality. Till then Vivaldi satisfies my browsing needs....for now.

Kobi

@kahukura I am patient, just won't be using Vivaldi as my Main Browser at the moment.

@Para-Noid I find it very rude for an ambassador to accuse people of trolling, just because there's a difference of opinion.

Vivaldi is known, check google? I did my own testing, there's more than enough information and topics about resource usage on this same Forum (not to mention I was talking specific cases, but some people like to read between lines).
No logic in having settings split between Vivaldi and Chromium, it's also extremely confusing as some settings get override by others between the pages.
That is your opinion, I live in 2019 and I see no use for a local mail client, I'm fine with webmail. Having a mail client imbedded in the browser would be bloat for me.
Maybe cause you not a developer yourself, you don't see how crippled some extensions are. There's a reason we have topics like this.
When you have regressions on the Stable channel, you know it's not Stable (normally releases with regressions stay in Beta until fixed).

You so lost you even accused Microsoft (Edge) of using Opera engine, when in fact it used it's own engine EdgeHTML (nothing to do with Opera). Then you wanna talk of facts with me, when all you could do was try to shove your opinion down my throat while being rude.

Para-Noid

@Kobi You're right. I don't know anything.

kahukura

@Kobi I and for sure others treasure your opinion as it has valid points. Some things are worked on while we talk others take more time. Resource usage is always in focus of The Team as I have read multiple times. That means some things can be improved while others require some more shiny light before it happens. I can not tell anything about extensions as I don't use them extensively.

Please be so kind to report any issues you encounter that doesn't work as expected to the developers. It will help to make you convince that the browser is good for everyone's need and also serves the purpose you need it for.

Kobi

@kahukura As I said I'm patient and I know it takes time, if I didn't care about Vivaldi I wouldn't have said anything nor be here.

Most of the concerns I raised are already known both among the community and developers. The same way I know most people want the Mail Client, while I keep insisting I just want an option during install to not include it at all.

Some of the regressions in the stable channel, is what got me to uninstall Vivaldi last time too, currently I'm using Microsoft Edge and I won't have problems going back to Vivaldi in the future.

kahukura

@Kobi Isn't it good to have such an interaction between devs and us (users) what is needed and where we would see some more progress? Regarding M3, let's just wait when it sees the light of the day to discuss it further. There are high expectations and not all might be fulfilled but that just leaves room for improvement. I wish that someday Vivaldi is the browser of your choice and you a contributing member of it's future development.

Ayespy

@Kobi said in The 4-year challenge:

I live in 2019 and I see no use for a local mail client, I'm fine with webmail. Having a mail client imbedded in the browser would be bloat for me.

I also live in 2019 and, like millions, have a critical need for a local mail client. Glad you're fine with webmail. That's kewl. The totality of the "bloat" with the embedded client is a very slightly larger installer. In fact, the installer for today's internal test version with mail is a MB smaller than the most recent snapshot without mail. Whut? And if you don't activate mail, it does not impact your usage in any way whatever. See how that works? I get what I need, and you don't have to have it. It's like magic.

kahukura

@Ayespy Wanna share the todays installer to prove you right? :face_savouring_delicious_food: (j/k)

Edit: All Offtopic, sorry for hijacking.