Vivaldi won't allow a machine to lie to you
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The world of web browsers have not been spared by the trend of integrating LLM functionality. But there are fundamental issues with it and Vivaldi addresses them.
Click here to see the full blog post
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I'm glad that Vivaldi isn't integrating them into the browser.
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Great to see Vivaldi take a stance on this, one I fully agree with
"In computer science, the ELIZA effect is the tendency to project human traits โ such as experience, semantic comprehension or empathy โ into computer programs that have a textual interface. The effect is a category mistake that arises when the program's symbolic computations are described through terms such as "think", "know" or "understand.""
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect -
Isn't choosing Bing as the default search engine running in conflict with this stated goal since their CoPilot is the very thing you are decrying here?
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@julien_picalausa, compleatly agree , despite I'm using an AI search assistant. The only one I found that in my opinion uses LLM properly, not to invent something or be used as a dumb chatbot, in which its capabilities are quite limited, but mainly to "understand" my queries and giving me relevant results from reliable sources, with a list of corresponding websites for more information. All this with a PP and philosophy that reminds me a lot of that of Vivaldi. It was the first search engine that used AI, it was developed by a small startup of 2 devs that also have the tracking and surveillance techniques of large companies up to their ears. Open ears for user requests and friendly support in their Discord channel.
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@CooperDad A search engine is not an "integrated AI assistant" and the user is free to change and simply not use it.
Not like those in other browsers who try to push it in your face at every opportunity.
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@cooperdad: No.
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I do agree but that's something can be reviewed later for a main adoption but it would be appropriate to consider a pilot, perhaps in the Snapshot version, to adopt generative AI in the translation module, which offers performance not in line with market solutions.
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Weird seeing a moral position here instead of an agnostic one. What good are you doing or what moral values are you trying to defend if in any case Vivaldi browser allows users to use Chatgpt or Bing? You should block the use of LLMs inside vivaldi to be consistent. That wouldn't be good for the business, would it? I suggest you try a more proactive and agnostic position. Bundle a solution with the right guardrails. Innovate. But don't put yourselves out of the loop.
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Why is Vivaldi taking a position - but allowing its users complete freedom to ignore that - some kind of problem for some people?
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When the LLM thing blew up just over a year ago I was very disappointed in how many people (especially in news media and blogs etc.) completely misunderstood it and fell for their own hype.
In particular I remember one guy's video saying that if he asked it a certain political question it "proved" that his take on the answer was correct - instead of understanding that all it showed was that the largest amount of online data came from certain types of people posting certain types of phrases on the subject. I lost a lot of respect for that vlogger's supposed political / worldly knowledge in that moment!
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I appreciate your attitude of not being addictive to the AI hype.
It is important to keep up with innovative concepts, but not only because everyone does it.
The energy consumption does not bother a lot of people especially not those who tend to use LLMs even more often, than the laymen. -
Still not sure why people are using the Chat bots for many things when it has not been publicly tested that much and they are using it as if it had been for 20+ years
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Interessting article, I would still look forward for an summarization feature, but you can still use extensions if you want to have something like that.
We will see how chatbots will develop over time and how it will impact our lifes.
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AI is here to stay, there is no doubt about this. I see the problem not in AI as such, but in large corporations that use it as a welcome tool to dig user data, apart from the inappropriate use by many users, relying on the responses of ChatBots, without taking into account that the vast majority of them receive their information, not in real time from the web, but from a database of previous queries and basic answers, often very outdated (that of ChatGPT from 2021). This means that, if it does not find an answer to a query, it invents it, using data that may or may not be related.
AI can be a very powerful and usefull tool, but among the already more than 5800 existing AI apps, you have to choose carefully and not forgetting your own intelligence and common sense. -
@cooperdad: I think you have a point.
If you go to bing.com (which I never do, but did it now just for testing), aside from the obvious link to Copilot at the top, on any query you write there are Copilot chat recommendations, as well as the big 'Try Copilot for "query" - Chat'. For anyone that doesn't know, Copilot is basically ChatGPT.
So one can safely say that Bing search engine is pushing Copilot/ChatGPT at every opportunity, in a very Microsoft-esque style of aggressively pushing its products to gain market share.
Now while some might find this distasteful, it is their right to do so.
Also, I understand it is Vivaldi's right to choose whatever default search engine they see fit from an economical point of view, even though I may not like their choice. (Personally, I see no philosophical difference between Microsoft's Bing and Google) -
@fratquintero: Vivaldi is about choice, there's no reason to block anything. They're just saying they won't implement their own LLM.
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To think I briefly left Vivaldi for Edge's AI, I didn't think about downsides.
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@AladinRun My point was not Vivaldi blocking LLMs. What I suggested was Vivaldi assuming a more proactive and agnostic position like, bundling a solution with the right guardrails so it won't turn pretty soon into a dino. Sorry, but this is the game: you are in or you are past.
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@fratquintero said in Vivaldi won't allow a machine to lie to you:
What I suggested was Vivaldi assuming a more proactive and agnostic position like, bundling a solution with the right guardrails so it won't turn pretty soon into a dino.
And who likes to pay for extra servers and LLM licenses? Or should Vivaldi sell a extra yearly Vivaldi+ subscription?