Vivaldi won't allow a machine to lie to you
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Why is Vivaldi taking a position - but allowing its users complete freedom to ignore that - some kind of problem for some people?
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When the LLM thing blew up just over a year ago I was very disappointed in how many people (especially in news media and blogs etc.) completely misunderstood it and fell for their own hype.
In particular I remember one guy's video saying that if he asked it a certain political question it "proved" that his take on the answer was correct - instead of understanding that all it showed was that the largest amount of online data came from certain types of people posting certain types of phrases on the subject. I lost a lot of respect for that vlogger's supposed political / worldly knowledge in that moment!
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I appreciate your attitude of not being addictive to the AI hype.
It is important to keep up with innovative concepts, but not only because everyone does it.
The energy consumption does not bother a lot of people especially not those who tend to use LLMs even more often, than the laymen. -
Still not sure why people are using the Chat bots for many things when it has not been publicly tested that much and they are using it as if it had been for 20+ years
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Interessting article, I would still look forward for an summarization feature, but you can still use extensions if you want to have something like that.
We will see how chatbots will develop over time and how it will impact our lifes.
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AI is here to stay, there is no doubt about this. I see the problem not in AI as such, but in large corporations that use it as a welcome tool to dig user data, apart from the inappropriate use by many users, relying on the responses of ChatBots, without taking into account that the vast majority of them receive their information, not in real time from the web, but from a database of previous queries and basic answers, often very outdated (that of ChatGPT from 2021). This means that, if it does not find an answer to a query, it invents it, using data that may or may not be related.
AI can be a very powerful and usefull tool, but among the already more than 5800 existing AI apps, you have to choose carefully and not forgetting your own intelligence and common sense. -
@cooperdad: I think you have a point.
If you go to bing.com (which I never do, but did it now just for testing), aside from the obvious link to Copilot at the top, on any query you write there are Copilot chat recommendations, as well as the big 'Try Copilot for "query" - Chat'. For anyone that doesn't know, Copilot is basically ChatGPT.
So one can safely say that Bing search engine is pushing Copilot/ChatGPT at every opportunity, in a very Microsoft-esque style of aggressively pushing its products to gain market share.
Now while some might find this distasteful, it is their right to do so.
Also, I understand it is Vivaldi's right to choose whatever default search engine they see fit from an economical point of view, even though I may not like their choice. (Personally, I see no philosophical difference between Microsoft's Bing and Google) -
@fratquintero: Vivaldi is about choice, there's no reason to block anything. They're just saying they won't implement their own LLM.
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To think I briefly left Vivaldi for Edge's AI, I didn't think about downsides.
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@AladinRun My point was not Vivaldi blocking LLMs. What I suggested was Vivaldi assuming a more proactive and agnostic position like, bundling a solution with the right guardrails so it won't turn pretty soon into a dino. Sorry, but this is the game: you are in or you are past.
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@fratquintero said in Vivaldi won't allow a machine to lie to you:
What I suggested was Vivaldi assuming a more proactive and agnostic position like, bundling a solution with the right guardrails so it won't turn pretty soon into a dino.
And who likes to pay for extra servers and LLM licenses? Or should Vivaldi sell a extra yearly Vivaldi+ subscription?
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@DoctorG Good questions! My opinion is no one likes to pay for extra servers and LLM licences nor Vivaldi should sell an extra yearly subscription. But the course for Vivaldi is to be in the AI trend. Or die.
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@DoctorG I mean, I'd pay a yearly Vivaldi+ subscription, but I know I'm in the minority.
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@DoctorG, not so un big problem with licenses, there are a lot of AI and LLM FOSS (see the link I put), the thing is another, what shall do an AI in Vivaldi? At the moment I can't come up with anything productive or constructive that requires an AI in Vivaldi. For the other, anyone is free to use an AI search, an chat or other in the search engine list or in the web panel without problems, there are also a lot of AI extensions in the Store, if someone like to give Google his data with these.
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@Catweazle the only thing I'd like is the article summary feature.
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I'm happy with this statement. As I talked to John in Japan last year, I expect that Vivaldi would apply AI technologies for users so that they can customize web pages without deep knowledge/understanding of web technologies like HTML/CSS/JS.
I strongly believe that what accessibility overlay vendors provide can be (and should be) provided by browser vendors, so that EVERY website can be customized by ALL users.
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@RiveDroite, Andisearch do it, summarize, explain and has even a own reader view for the websites, without the need to access these.
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@fratquintero said in Vivaldi won't allow a machine to lie to you:
@AladinRun My point was not Vivaldi blocking LLMs. What I suggested was Vivaldi assuming a more proactive and agnostic position like, bundling a solution with the right guardrails so it won't turn pretty soon into a dino. Sorry, but this is the game: you are in or you are past.
Why be proactive to a system that has obvious downsides? Why be "agnostic" when the team believes it is not a good thing?
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@Catweazle thanks! I've been using it for the last few days based on your recommendation. It's pretty decent.
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@cooperdad: Not speaking for everyone here in this case, but I personally think you have a point. The push of Microsoft in the LLM space has been unsettling and I'm not super happy that they are pushing this to all Bing users. It isn't clear to me that this is something we can easily change, however, for various reasons. But definitely something to keep in mind.