Reading mode is unfortunate

[barbudo2005]

@Catweazle

I am convinced that sight and mind work by habituation, i.e. if you travel from your home to work for 20 years along the same route, the chances of having an accident decrease significantly.

In the same way if you see all the web pages with the same font and with the same background color and font color, your reading will be easier.

If you use the flag each site will have a different background color and font color.

On the contrary, in Dark Reader you define the colors for all sites.

I have never been able to understand the resentment that some users have for not using extensions.

What do you think is the difference in milliseconds and processor usage between the flag and the extension?

[dude99]

@Catweazle The "white background" is actually refer to "off white", it's tinted white color on screen which imitate white color on white paper or newspaper. So that it doesn't appear to be glowing from the screen all around the black text.

https://www.canva.com/colors/color-meanings/off-white/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_white
https://simplicable.com/en/off-white-color

We did discuss about this years ago: https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/515386

[Catweazle]

@dude99 , no, white color on the screen are equal of all pixel on and black is all pixel off, as say, lights on and lights off, only work the background light in a LCD screen, not the same as white paper which only reflect lights.
The proof is also that Dark mode on a laptop can increase battery life by up to almost 20%, as a naturally desirable side effect.

@barbudo2005 , not so important the milliseconds, but I think that it isn't needed to use an extension, when it's possible to get a similar result with Vivaldi's own functions.

[barbudo2005]

@Catweazle

Said:

… when it's possible to get a similar result with Vivaldi's own functions.

Your assertion is incorrect.

With this flag on:

Compare this :

With this (Dark Reader on, Flag disabled)

Try one month with Dark Reader with my colors (or softer) and you will SEE the difference.

[Catweazle]

@barbudo2005 , I know the difference, I also had used the Dark Reader and currentlly I use it in FF.

Im your own screenshot you see the result of Dark Reader the letters more blurry than with flags.

[paul1149]

@Tsvetkov1964 said in Reading mode is unfortunate:

The best and safest font for the eyes is Verdana/.

Probably DejaVu Sans in Linux.

[barbudo2005]

@Catweazle

Both screenshot open with paint.net at 1200%:

Flag:

DR:

I don't see it more blurry, just one whiter than the other.

[Catweazle]

@barbudo2005 , as say, in flags I see a better contrast. Well, the advantage of DR is that I can activate and desactivate it, without restarting Vivaldi, apart I can adjust contrasts and colorscales, but as my preferences are white (or green, blue..) on black, it's irrelevant for me, apart the advantages of Flags is, that it works also in the Web panel pages and in diferent Google pages, like the Chrome Store, non of the extensions can this, nor DR or Stylus.

[A11yCat]

@pelaird I don't dispute any of the 8 points you wrote. They are most likely valid for an "average" person.

However, there are people who are more sensitive to bright light than the average person, especially with computer displays emitting light (rather than paper passively reflecting light). I am one of them, although my affliction is not very severe. Especially in dark environments, I find a bright screen not to be very comfortable to look at.

That is why I use dark mode in the operating systems of my computer and my mobile phone, as well as a dark theme in Vivaldi.

White-on-black (as well as black-on-white) can be disturbing for some users, so I generally set a very dark grey background (#111) and light grey text (#ddd) in the dark mode styling when I design web pages. For light mode styling I use an off-white background with a slight yellow tint (like #fcfcf9) and dark grey text (#333).

BTW, I do wish that Vivaldi forums (and other Vivaldi sites) respected the user's preferred colour scheme.

YMMV

[Catweazle]

@A11yCat , you can use the Vivaldi Forum mod by @luetage, it gives you several customizable options to mod the Forum UI.
PD. If you also use Dark Reader, whitelist in it the Vivaldi Forum when you use the forum mod, becauste it gives strange results, because they enter in conflicts.

[nomadic]

Sorry, this is a common misconception that annoys me, so I would like to correct it.

@Catweazle said in Reading mode is unfortunate:

Dark mode on a laptop can increase battery life by up to almost 20%

This isn't true for the majority of displays currently in use on laptops.

If you use an OLED, a panel with local dimming on the backlight, or with any type of panel where displaying black actually result in turning off the light source, then you will start to notice a difference. Most people are likely using an LCD display on their laptops, which uses a constant backlight that is always on while anything is being displayed. Displaying black might even use a bit more energy on an LCD because you need to send power to the liquid crystals to make them block the backlight to show black.

OLEDs are becoming more common on laptops, but they are still mostly relegated to the higher end models and usually come with an additional cost when you choose it as an option. Phones, however, actually see wide adoption of OLED panels, so dark mode might have more affect on your phone's battery life.

[Catweazle]

@nomadic , no black isn't emited by the leds, black is put of all leds, white is made with red, green and magenta leds full on, which sum is white. All other colors are different mixtures of the three basic colors.. The same color code #000000 for black show it, all off.

[barbudo2005]

@Tsvetkov1964

Said:

No, Verdana is the best, it's a medical fact.

I didn't know there was a medical specialty called Fontist.

[dude99]

@Catweazle I was referring to the "white background" quote from @pelaird said in Reading mode is unfortunate:

It is easy to read a digital text written in black text on white background because the light that makes us read each word and letter is not reflected but absorbed. This causes much less strain on our eyes. In the case of black background with white text, the effect is opposite because the reflected light from text scatter into each other. Addition of grey tint to the background improves the situation because it means less light reflects behind the words, making it easier on the eyes.

Obviously, in technical terms digital "white color on screen" is always refer to #FFFFFF or rgb(256,256,256). But most not so technical people also refer off-white as "white".

I'm just try to help you guys understand there are more comfortable way to read large block of text on screen, especially for the elderly. Large amount of white text on black/dark background with is a well known taboo in 2D design (on screen or print), because it force reader's eyes to focus extra hard on the text & get tired much faster. And it's the same with black text on PURE white background, normally web designer should avoid large amount of PURE white display on screen, they should use off-white color instead.

With that said, IMHO Vivaldi's forum color palette is a good example of this taboo. Over 90% of the screen is always cover by the blindingly white PURE white combo with black text! LOL

[nomadic]

@Catweazle said in Reading mode is unfortunate:

no black isn't emited by the leds, black is put of all leds, white is made with red, green and magenta leds full on, which sum is white. All other colors are different mixtures of the three basic colors.. The same color code #000000 for black show it, all off.

That is how an OLED display works. Each individual pixel of an OLED is made up of the 3 colored sub pixels which are each a discreet LED. However, the colors on an LCD are not individual LEDs; they are color filters for the backlight.

The subpixels each control how much light from the backlight they let through of their given color, but the backlight is always on, even while a pure black display is shown.

Here is a brief explanation of how LCDs work:

Explanation below

 
As in the GIF above, the backlight is first polarized to have all the light waves going in a single orientation. Because the final polarizer is oriented in the opposite direction, light won't pass through by default. The liquid crystals in-between the 2 polarization filters can gradually realign the light waves to match the orientation of the final panel.
 
The natural shape of the liquid crystals is the spiral shape that lets light light from the backlight through. If you apply a voltage to the crystals, the spiral breaks down variable to the amount of voltage applied to eventually leave the light in the initial polarization which cannot pass through the final layer. This is how a color is turned off.
 
So, to get the color black on an LCD, you need to send the maximum power to each subpixel to get them all to block the backlight from going through.

Alternatively, here is a video explaining how an LCD works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbdhbyiHX-s

---

If you remove the final polarization layer, there is nothing to block the backlight, so you get a pure white screen. You can even make a sort of privacy monitor by doing this.

Image of a monitor with the top polarization layer removed.

[Catweazle]

@nomadic , anyway a white backgroun is for me like looking in a lamp, which hurts and dazzle my old eyes. Black is no light and more confortable and better readable for me, read on a white background is for me like difference a bird en front of the sun.

[dude99]

@Catweazle sounds like you might be suffer from Eye Floaters and Flashes, it's time to have your annual eye exam. You might even need special glasses when reading from screen to ease the tension.

[A11yCat]

@Catweazle I can do anything on any site if I'm prepared to spend enough time on it, but my point is that the onus should not be entirely on the user. If the persons designing the site spend a few minutes or half an hour adding colours for both colour schemes, then thousands of users don't have to spend minutes or hours each to adapt it to their needs.
I work with digital accessibility, and one of the maxims in that business is: "that which is necessary for some, benefits everyone".
Support for dark mode, responsive design that allows zooming and resizing text (not to mention support for mobile devices) and good focus indicators should be the minimum level of respect for the user on a modern website, in my opinion.
(I'm sorry for derailing the argument and will stop preaching now. )

[Catweazle]

@A11yCat , a good point of view, but Google don't know this. Not only no respect this in the Chrome Store, even don`t permit that DR, Stylus and others change the UI in it. Only Dark mode flags and invert filter works.
Even most Forums ofering several UI for the user choice, this one by an extension made by @luetage. Most other sites at least also permit the user to change the colors by extensions, even Windows permits all type of customizatios without problems.

[luetage]

@A11yCat You don’t have to do anything, I already did. It would have taken you less time to install the extension than to write all of this out. Vivaldi didn’t develop their own forum software, they are using nodeBB, which has no inbuilt way to switch themes. I’d rather they spend their time on more important projects than something mundane like dark mode, which can be solved by anyone. Again, there is a solution (well, far more than one actually…). Take advantage of it, or don’t.