Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...

leeuniverse

First I want to say that I really WANT to use Vivaldi, it has the most features of anyone in all the ways I need. However, there ARE two things that really irritate the crap out of me.... So much so that I'm actually using a FAR less developed browser "Maxthon" who only recently switched to Chromium sadly, even though they were the FIRST to make many of the most important modern browser features.

Anyway, these may not seem like a big deal, but for me they just are...

Essentially, the UI has been designed for someone's "personal" tastes rather than for the Masses, and this simply needs to change.

1. Bookmark Folder Icons provide no "contrast". Everything has been made "white & black" in the browser. This is NOT how you design a proper UI for the masses. It's like with Windows 11's new "Folder Ribbon"... someone's personal Theme instead of being designed for the masses like the old ribbon was.

This pic is an example of how the Folder Icons SHOULD look like.
I also understand they were "yellow" before, is that correct? I can then see why that was changed, that's a far "too bright" color scheme. But the Orange color I have below is an example of a far better one, and what the browser DEFAULT should similar to. If people want different, that should come with Themes, not the default browser design. Or, the default shouldn't be how it "currently" is UNLESS people have access to Themes to personalize the UI, i.e. including the Bookmark icons.

alt text

2. The Vivaldi Menu Icon should be at the END of the Extension Bar, NOT at the Top Left of the browser. It is massively UNCOMFORTABLE to use the Menu when it's in that Top Far Left position.
That position where the Vivaldi Icon is should actually have the "Login Icon" there instead, instead of the Login Icon being in the Extension Bar as it currently is.
This was also a terrible UI design decision... Again, someone's "personal" interest instead of a comfortable design for the masses.

Please Vivaldi, fix these issues and I will leave Maxthon...

Bonus Issue... No "Drag and Drop" of text or links within the page (to search text/open links).
I only state this as a bonus because thank heavens there are a few extensions we can use, unlike "Double-Click to close Tabs" for which there are NO extensions for some reason, but fortunately Vivaldi has that feature, but this is a limitation with other arrogant browser devs such as Chrome/Edge, etc.

Anyway, Drag & Drop should be default in the browser, not had with an extension.

Thanks for your time, I hope you seriously consider these changes.
They may seem "minor" to most, but "comfortable usage design" is a KEY component of my use of a browser. It's why I'm using Maxthon right now (after leaving 360Chrome since they are no longer developing an English version, and even before that when Maxthon became more worse years ago back when it switched to a standalone browser after being a shell of IE as Maxthon Classic). Maxthon has a better UI design... It's just comfortable to use...

But, I'm wanting to use Vivaldi since it's far more professionally developed. The above UI issues really prevent me from feeling comfortable using the browser. Thankfully, I was able to fix other UI issues due to the advanced nature of Vivaldi, but I can't fix the above. I need the Dev's to fix them.

Thanks much....

mib2berlin

@leeuniverse
Hi, I guess this should be in the feature request forum part.
My two cents to the request:

I would never prioritize software based on the colors of the UI, more based on the features I need.
This seams not a personal preference, example:

This is the main file explorer of KDE, latest version, menu in the top left corner.

Cheers, mib

Hadden89

@mib2berlin said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

I would never prioritize software based on the colors of the UI

There is a good reason for the fact most UI elements are black or white now: themes. A yellow folder with a yellow theme background will have poor contrast. But ideas to improving it keeping the monochrome schema is totally legit.

Ayespy

This is not a Vivaldi Chats discussion. It's a discussion for https://forum.vivaldi.net/category/2/support-troubleshooting , just the same as https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/3122/what-is-stopping-you-from-using-v-all-the-time/541?page=28&lang=en-GB .

I am moving it there. To be clear, the Vivaldi Chats topic is NOT for specific complaints or for feature requests.

As noted (with relevant links) at the head of the topic, "A place for general Vivaldi related discussions, polls and more.

To report and find solutions to issues, please visit the Support and Troubleshooting category.

To share your ideas about features that should get implemented in Vivaldi, please post in the Feature Requests category.

For topics not related to Vivaldi, please go to the Chit-Chat category."

Komposten

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

The Vivaldi Menu Icon should be at the END of the Extension Bar, NOT at the Top Left of the browser. It is massively UNCOMFORTABLE to use the Menu when it's in that Top Far Left position.

No, it's not. The four corners of the screen are the most easily accessed positions (see Fitts's law). So that's typically where you put some of the the most important features. Like the menu which has shortcuts for all major features of the software.

Not to mention that menus have conventionally been in the top left of the screen/window for decades, in almost every program, across all major operating systems.

Saying that the profile/login icon should be up there is a personal preference at best. I've never used that button. It's completely and utterly pointless to me. So it does not deserve one of the two best positions the browser can make use of.

Of course, that is my opinion. I don't know what opinion the "masses" has, but I'd bet there is no unanimous, objective truth as for what is best. But there are history, convention and standards, and breaking is often not the best idea.

7twenty

@Komposten said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

I don't know what opinion the "masses" has

Whatever the most popular browser is, so whatever Chrome does that's what most people will see as the "right" way.

I've always found the main menu at the very right of the address bar odd, especially as menus with flyouts show to the left, even with the > showing right. But placing it there fits in well with all the other extension icons etc.

Only thing I would like to see is the Vivaldi main menu slightly modernised.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

Bookmark Folder Icons provide no "contrast".

Thankfully Vivaldi is highly customisable, so a quick post in the modifications section will no doubt give you a fix if you're that way inclined.

Yes, it's not something that everyone will do, but at the same time i don't think a lot of people would forgo a feature filled browser just because some icons aren't the right colour.

That said, making the folders have a fill/outline option + allowing the use of the accent colour wouldn't be a bad idea to add.

guigirl

Thank goodness for the invention of the CapsLock kb key.

leeuniverse

So, in response to the primary responses...

1. Yes, for a majority of programs the Menu being on the Left is normal, but I don't know what it is, with a Browser I find the menu being on the Right as browsers have always done it to be FAR more comfortable to use. With it on the Left it literally feels like a massive "pain in the ***" to use.

In contrast, I don't have the same experience with most other programs. This could also be due to the fact that most other programs also don't have a "small icon" that you click on, their menus are essentially "bigger", going across the first 1/4 of the Left of the screen, so it feels more natural. So, I would disagree that the "common rule" mentioned is being properly applied in this case.

Let's think about this logically in relation to "ease of use"...
With the Menu Icon on the Top Right, it's just an easy mouse push up and then click.
With the Menu Icon on the Top Left, you have have to drag your mouse across the entire screen, and then struggle to find/click the small Menu Icon. It's not even close to as easy to use.

Now, the exception would be those "Left-Handed"... Then yes, the Menu Icon on the Top Left WOULD be easier for them to use. But this isn't most people.
So, Vivaldi is using a "theory" or some Lefty's dev's preference, to over-ride "natural ease of use" for most users.

2. I can can perfectly understand Vivaldi having a "black & white" theme as a Default IF Themes were able to be created in which people could design the Bookmark Folder Icons how they wanted in their Themes. But this can't be done yet.
Vivaldi put the "Cart before the Horse"....

3. The Bookmark folder icons CANNOT be edited save in a very limited way as I show in the above screenshot example of something similar to how they should be looking.
For example, a bookmark "drop-down" list the folders in that list can't be edited like the others can as shown in the screenshot. According to other users, those folders are in the browser engine and can't be edited with CSS.

Anyway, these issues are bad enough for me that I don't want to use Vivaldi even though it's far superior in features and configuration. Maxthon for example looks nice and is just easy to use. Yes, lot's of things they have to fix, but at least most of the primary things I need work enough.

I made this posting because I care, because I WANT to use Vivaldi, but these little things are just so ridiculously unnecessary to have them "different", i.e.:

Menu icon on the Left instead of on the Right as ALL other browsers are.
The "Login" Icon being in the Extension Bar instead of the Top Left corner as most other browsers have it (i.e. where the current Vivaldi Menu Icon is).
No proper "color-contrast" in Bookmark elements, etc.

I mean, trying to be "different" in completely unnecessary ways doesn't make a good customer experience. It amazes me the many features Vivaldi has, but then these very simple things is driving people way. For example, I'm FAR from the first that's complained about the folder icons. Again, great idea if Themes could actually edit them, but they can't yet. So to give a non-color-contrast theme to the default browser "now", makes no sense whatsoever.

Thanks...

(p.s. I posted this in "Vivaldi Chat" because I'm wanting a express my thoughts on these issues, and have a discussion on them. I know some of them for example are already "Feature Requests", so this type of discussion doesn't belong there. Vivaldi Chat seemed the most appropriate since I'm wanting to discuss Vivaldi. Support and Troubleshooting doesn't seem at all the proper forum for this discussion per-se, but okay, this could be classified as "trouble" or "issues" with the browser, so, I'm okay with the move if the mods are.)

leeuniverse

This for example is how the "Login Icon" and the "Menu Icon" should be re-arranged.

Or, make this a "Setting" since Vivaldi wants to be different, so those of us who like the "Standard" design can have it.

Vivaldi shouldn't do things "non-standard" without making a Setting for those who want the standard.
I don't find this an "unreasonable" request....

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Stardust

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

They may seem "minor" to most

Very "minor" to me.

monochrome folders look okay, minimal and modern
I would like to move the Menu to the Address Bar too to keep Tab bar for the tabs only. I don't care about Profile button at all.

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My old FR: https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/24467/option-to-move-menu-button-to-address-bar

Komposten

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

Let's think about this logically in relation to "ease of use"...
With the Menu Icon on the Top Right, it's just an easy mouse push up and then click.
With the Menu Icon on the Top Left, you have have to drag your mouse across the entire screen, and then struggle to find/click the small Menu Icon. It's not even close to as easy to use.

I just push my mouse to the top left corner and click. No hunting for a small button, no struggling. Just straight into the corner of the screen and click. I don't even need my monitor to be turned on to do it.

But then, I use my Vivaldi maximised, on operating systems with a taskbar at the bottom of the screen rather than the top. So the menu button is right up there in the corner.

But, I can definitely see the benefit of adding an option to move the menu button, for those who prefer it in a different place.

Oh, and as it happens, I am left-handed. But I still use my right hand for the mouse.

7twenty

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

With the Menu Icon on the Top Left, you have have to drag your mouse across the entire screen

So your mouse is always sitting on the right side of the screen? Interesting...

Where the menu button is on the left top is actually easier to access as you have the corner as a barrier ensuring you don't move beyond it - assuming full screen and no multi-monitor setup.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

With the Menu Icon on the Top Right, it's just an easy mouse push up and then click.

Except that top right is the close button. So you still need to use some fine control to click the button exactly.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

but then these very simple things is driving people way.

Source? Of all things driving people away, i don't think they're at the top of the list.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

Menu icon on the Left instead of on the Right as ALL other browsers are

If you said most, then you would be right. Opera doesn't.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

The "Login" Icon being in the Extension Bar instead of the Top Left corner as most other browsers have it

Edge, Chrome, Vivaldi have it in the extension bar. Maybe Maxthon as well.
Firefox has it part of the main menu as far as i can tell.

IMO Firefox has the right idea. No need for that to be front and centre, maybe if it's a multi-user PC where it makes it easier to see who's logged on.. but who doesn't use separate OS profiles for that?

Honestly i think you're projecting what you want as some standard of which there just isn't.

Maybe some of what you want may happen at some point, but if you really want to use the browser you'd workaround them. Otherwise stick to what works for you.

leeuniverse

@7twenty said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

With the Menu Icon on the Top Left, you have have to drag your mouse across the entire screen

So your mouse is always sitting on the right side of the screen? Interesting...

Where the menu button is on the left top is actually easier to access as you have the corner as a barrier ensuring you don't move beyond it - assuming full screen and no multi-monitor setup.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

With the Menu Icon on the Top Right, it's just an easy mouse push up and then click.

Except that top right is the close button. So you still need to use some fine control to click the button exactly.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

but then these very simple things is driving people way.

Source? Of all things driving people away, i don't think they're at the top of the list.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

Menu icon on the Left instead of on the Right as ALL other browsers are

If you said most, then you would be right. Opera doesn't.

@leeuniverse said in Two UI Issues that STOP me from using Vivaldi...:

The "Login" Icon being in the Extension Bar instead of the Top Left corner as most other browsers have it

Edge, Chrome, Vivaldi have it in the extension bar. Maybe Maxthon as well.
Firefox has it part of the main menu as far as i can tell.

IMO Firefox has the right idea. No need for that to be front and centre, maybe if it's a multi-user PC where it makes it easier to see who's logged on.. but who doesn't use separate OS profiles for that?

Honestly i think you're projecting what you want as some standard of which there just isn't.

Maybe some of what you want may happen at some point, but if you really want to use the browser you'd workaround them. Otherwise stick to what works for you.

1. Yes, most people have the mouse on the right side of the screen since most are right handed, at least from my observations being in many offices with computers.
One reason for this also is the "scroll-bar" in the browser is on the Right, not the Left, so it's most natural to keep the mouse near the scroll-bar in order to interact with the page.

2. Nah, I don't agree the menu on the Left it's "easier", especially given the above and the other info I've already mentioned.
While I do have a Multi-Monitor setup, that's really not the issue. For example, I've been testing Maxthon and Vivaldi at the same time, and the Menu Button on the Right is just simply FAR easier to use, to get to and click, not the mention the "simple" design of Vivaldi's menu is a bit harder to use while the "wider" more "open" design of other Chromium browsers is far easier to use.

3. Yes, but certainly not as much fine control needed as is for clicking the top left.
But again, I'm really just asking for the Standard, and then if people want the Menu on the Left there should be a Setting. The standard is standard for good reasons, most of which I've mentioned.

4. Well, there isn't really anything else "bad" about the browser, so little things like these will irritate people. I'm after all one such person. It's so bad that it makes me NOT want to use the browser and it makes me post this thread. Now, it's true each one has a different "level" of irritation for people. For example, while not as many many not care about the Menu and Login Icons, a LOT DO care about the Bookmark Folder Icons.... and those complaints are well documented on this forum.

5. Well, obviously I was speaking in general, so of course there are exceptions to every rule.

6. Sure, that particular Button Icon (Login Icon) have more in which it's in the Extension bar.
But likely just as many have it at the top Left. To be clear, for the Login Icon I don't really care where it is, however if we are moving the Vivaldi Menu Icon to the end of the Extension bar similar to all other browsers, then we need something to "fill" the Top Left position, since having the tabs go "that far" Left wouldn't look or be comfortable to use. The spacing an icon there creates is important. So, that and the fact that it's commonly there are the ONLY reasons I mention putting the Login Icon there.

It's ONLY the Menu Icon that I actually have an issue with as to it's position.

7. Some things I'm "projecting" my needs, and others not.... I think I've indicated the differences and why. Also, I'm just asking for a SETTING for those things which are common, but Vivaldi is doing different than normal. So, those like me aren't kept from the browser.

Again, I'm only addressing these things because they ARE a problem for me. My feelings are just as valid as anyone else's, and I think I've explained well now "why" they are issues, and would be issues for some others.

- Bookmark Folders Color is a COMMON complaint, thus it needs to be resolved.

- Menu Icon while maybe not a common "known" complaint (don't know, haven't searched this particular issue), I think I've explained well enough why it's an issue, so we should at least have a "setting" so we choose. I mean, this is one of the GREAT things about Vivaldi, and they even mention it as the a primary mission of the browser, i.e. the ability to customize to people's needs. (recently read this in the mission statements etc.)

- Login Icon, not really an "issue", just mention it as it would be a perfect fit to replace the Menu Icon since that spot needs to be filled when the Menu icon is moved, and this is a common spot for the Login icon for some browsers.

- And of course "Drag & Drop" as you well know a common complaint that this is missing from Vivaldi. (though, this is fortunately fixable with an Extension, but as you know also this should be default in the browser.)

So, what you think is "personal" in my complaints here, isn't entirely so...
At least TWO of the three actual "complaints" are already well documented on this forum. Though I haven't searched yet on the Menu Icon if there have been any complaints (UPDATE: just did a search, didn't find anything obvious, but I'm sure there are some like me who don't like it and just haven't posted, most people don't post on forums who use things, especially when they leave because of it without continuing. Vivaldi should find out "why" people don't use the browser, why they leave it, and I bet there are some like me in that group).

Thanks all...