Keyboard shortcuts conflict on Google Docs
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Numlock is normally off here, since I don't use the number pad.
Anyway, I really wish this issue would get some attention, because Docs borders on unusable this way.
And it's not even the only issue:
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/36576/google-docs-loosing-input-focus-after-ctrl-tab-switch/2 -
@rseiler said in keyboard shortcut conflict on google docs:
I don't want them to apply in Google Docs.
Just turn them off when you're in Google Docs. There's an action to disable keyboard shortcuts that you can map to any keyboard shortcut you want, as well as to any mouse gesture.
it's far from an ideal for an end user
Actually, it's better than just solving this single issue. Providing users the ability to remap keyboard shortcuts really allows them to make the browser respond to the way they like to work. That's the guiding philosophy behind Vivaldi, making the browser adapt to the user's preferences and workflows, which vary widely from user to user. Personally, I have highly customized the keyboard shortcuts such that I don't even remember what the defaults are anymore. I also have highly customized my keyboard, flashing the firmware to update the key maps whenever I've got an idea on how to improve it. With multiple custom layers, macros, dual-function keys, meh & hyper keys, I really appreciate the flexibility that Vivaldi provides with the keyboard shortcuts, it's not commonly found in other software. It also happens to solve a bunch of other problems such as this one.
it's a daily annoyance to remember that
You only ever need to recall one keyboard shortcut, whatever you have mapped to the action "Keyboard Cheat Sheet", this pop up a list of all the defined keyboard shortcuts you have and what they do. I suppose you might want to also memorize the one assigned to disabling keyboard shortcuts if you use that action, because you'd have to turn them back on before you can pop up the cheat sheet. So, usually just 1, maximum 2.
If you regularly use your keyboard shortcuts, eventually you don't really recall what they are in order to use them. You just think about the action you want to perform and muscle memory takes over. I don't recall Ctrl-Alt-Shift-S to open my settings in Vivaldi, I think open my settings and my left hand holds down one key and then strikes another and lets go of both.
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@bonetone If going that route, only a mouse gesture would make sense for the drastic option of disabling shortcuts entirely, since afterwards you'd be forced to visit options manually.
That idea is a last resort.
First resort is to just fix the issue so that it doesn't happen to an extremely highly visible site like this. That makes the most sense since it would be widely felt. This is broken functionality and should be fixed (along with the related issue that I linked to). We're not talking about a minor site here or this being a new problem. Time enough has passed.
Second resort would be to give us the option to disable single-key shortcuts per site, but feature requests can take several years, so this is barely worth mentioning.
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@rseiler I'm not following, why would you need to visit options manually, and why must you only use a mouse gesture for it? I don't see the reasoning for either.
It's really quite simple to set up custom keyboard shortcuts if you don't want to have conflicts with this one site. It's also really easy to just toggle which keyboard shortcuts are active, Vivaldi's or the site's. Just like there is the action for popping up a cheat sheet to see what keyboard shortcuts you have assigned, there is even action to popup the list of keyboard shortcuts that a site defines, assuming they properly use webpage access keys.
I think this is mostly a user education issue, rather than a lack of functionality.
I post from my phone frequently, which likes to change "the" to "three". If you see three or similar, I probably meant "the". I use swipe, so typos can be totally unrelated words to what I intended. Knowing this should help you read through my typos.
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@rseiler said in keyboard shortcut conflict on google docs:
an extremely highly visible site like this.
For a bit of perspective, I don't use, and literally don't know anyone who uses, Google docs. I've never had them work entirely right in any browser I have used - and they don't display normally in just about anything but Chrome. (downloaded, Google docs are also at least somewhat incompatible with most document-editing software)
That said, one of Google's favorite pastimes is breaking functionality for every browser but Chrome, or for every client but web-based GMail. Large teams and lots of money are required to keep up with Google's propensity for non-standardizing everything.
Vivaldi will do what they can - but adjusting everything to cope with Google's anti-standardization standard may be a bit much to ask much of the time.
Edit: Just a word about Google and compatibility. I have five different email clients in use on one machine or another. Of these, four used to be compatible with GMail IMAP and one has never really been. At present, due to changes made by Google and the inability of developers to keep up, only one out of five is compatible with GMail IMAP at present.
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@bonetone We're talking about a shortcut which disables shortcuts. So, it's a one-way street: use the shortcut, they're indeed disabled, and you can use Google Docs unfettered.
When you're done,
just use the shortcut to enable...oops, all shortcuts are disabled. Therefore, you need to go into Prefs the old-fashioned way to enable them...so that any shortcuts work again.This is why a gesture is better, since all keyboard shortcuts being disabled doesn't affect its future use, since it's not a keyboard shortcut. This method works fine.
I just think it's better to fix the cross-talk problem between (single-key) shortcuts and Docs than discover and enable a baroque workaround.
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@rseiler The shortcut assigned to Disable Keyboard Shortcuts is not disabled by executing it, so you can toggle all other shortcuts very easily. I assigned Ctrl+Alt+K to make it easy to remember, but hard to do by accident.
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@rseiler You misunderstand how it works. The disable shortcuts disables all but that one shortcut. As I've described a few times already, it's a toggle. Try it. It is also available as a gesture, so you can have both. Ain't Vivaldi great? So flexible.
So yeah, there is a user education problem Vivaldi has here. I suppose I can get a jump start on writing up a little translation of what each action does, and that could be pinned somewhere. I'm actually already doing this in a limited way as I'm writing a guide for some friends and family on using Vivaldi's shortcuts and I've created a spreadsheet for how I've assigned my shortcuts.
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@Pesala I use Meh-Space, a.k.a. Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Space. Except that on my keyboard, I have a few button that, when held down, are Ctrl-Alt-Shift which is just easier to write Meh. Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Win is known as Hyper, and I have a few keys that when held are that as well. So I don't actually have to hold down 3 or 4 modifiers but only 1. I've got a few keys that are Ctrl-Shift, or Ctrl-Alt when held. When tapped, all these keys are something else.
This takes keyboard shortcuts to a whole other level of control, and honestly there is no issue with memorizing what keyboard shortcuts are which. When you first create or change shortcuts, there is a short time period where you will need some kind of cheat sheet. But if you actually use keyboard shortcuts with any frequency, you stop thinking Ctrl-Shift-B, you just think "Bookmarks Panel" and you fingers hit the two keys necessary (my page down key becomes Ctrl-Shift when held, and it's right next to B).
For hardcore users of keyboard shortcuts, Vivaldi is vastly superior to the other Browsers, especially Chrome & Firefox. All that configurability is a keyboard nerd's dream.
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@bonetone I don't think it's at all related to "user education." Every single user of Vivaldi knows about them and uses them. I've been using them since Opera. But it's a problem that a user shouldn't need to work around.
The point is this: There's a conflict between a Vivaldi feature and a popular site. And this isn't one of those cases where Google is doing something wacky to break a site with Vivaldi. Google has no responsibility for this and could do nothing about it even if it could be aware of it, which it couldn't. On the contrary, this is a Vivaldi action (feature) that is conflicting with a site (and almost certainly others; Gmail comes to mind, but I'm not a Gmail user).
It should be fixed, or, alternatively, some provision should be made to disable single-key shortcuts per site, perhaps even automatically for known problem sites like this one. Even though there's a sort-of workaround that disables major functionality globally across the browser for the duration of it being activated.
BTW, sorry, I did try the shortcut before settling on the gesture (as I mentioned I had already done; I guess you missed it, since you reminded me of gestures once again), but somehow I thought it wouldn't turn shortcuts back on again (maybe I mis-hit the hotkey, but you have to admit, the shortcut clearly should be named Toggle Keyboard Shortcuts).
I've tested further, and it does work as you describe. We can now stop talking about shortcuts.
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@rseiler said in keyboard shortcut conflict on google docs:
@bonetone I don't think it's at all related to "user education." Every single user of Vivaldi knows about them and uses them. I've been using them since Opera.
User education refers to efforts by the Vivaldi project and community to make the user base aware of the products features and how to best use them. It's not referring to a specific individual's knowledge, and I wasn't implying that you personally had done anything wrong.
Even with all that experience you were unaware of how this action works and implying it remains enabled in my posts wasn’t sufficient to communicate the point either. I couldn't construct a better example of a user education problem. Vivaldi as a project and community needs to better expose this information to educate its users.
should be named Toggle Keyboard Shortcuts
Agreed, and that is a concrete step towards improving user education. When I finish this guide for my friends & family, I'll also review it to see if it makes sense to modify and share it here.
This action doesn't really disable functionality across the entire browser, at least no more so than the caps lock key disables functionality across the entire system. As you described it, it's a toggle switch. In keyboard design we actually call this kind of functionality "layers". Layers are a very powerful concept when put to full use; everybody is already using layers they just don't think about it the way we do when programming keyboards.
For example, my current setup is using 3 layers -- in the first layer the keyboard is your standard qwerty layout minus the ergonomic changes to a lot of the other keys, on layer 2 uiojklm,. become 789456123 like a Numpad while esdf are arrow keys for just a few changes, the third layer is more difficult to describe because it's a lot of actions placed where it feels natural for me (things like media keys, launching programs, modifying the keyboard itself, etc.). To access the different layers I've hit some keys that I press & hold and when I release it goes back to how it was; other keys are a toggle -- I tap it once to activate a layer and again to return.
On the typical keyboard modifiers like Shift, Ctrl, Alt and Win/Command/Meta are are the press & hold to access a different layer, while things like caps lock & function lock are tap toggles. The "Disable Keyboard Shortcuts" action is a tap toggle. Tap it once to access the site defined shortcuts, tap it again to return. No functionality is actually lost.
some provision should be made to disable single-key shortcuts per site, perhaps even automatically for known problem sites like this one.
Ignoring the fact that this wouldn't address the OP's issue, this actually does break functionality. Single key shortcuts are disabled by default, a lot of users are probably unaware they exist. It's a pretty safe assumption that those who enable them intend to use them. If the shortcuts are disabled automatically or even per site, we'd need some mechanism for the user to enable them. Perhaps an action that could be assigned to keyboard shortcuts and a mouse gesture.
I've tested further, and it does work as you describe.
Cool. Just assign it to some shortcut that is very similar to the ones you would typically use in this situation. As a realistic example, let's say I'm working on a Google Doc, and I've currently turned off Vivaldi's shortcuts to use Google's but I want to open my web panel for Google Translate, or a thesaurus. I'm using Ctrl-Alt-Space for the Disable Keyboard Shortcuts action, and Ctrl-Alt-T for the web panel (T makes sense for either Translate or Thesaurus, and these are pretty close to my actual shortcuts). I hold down Ctrl-Alt- and I a tap: Space, T, Space. Now the web panel is showing and I'm back to the state with Google shortcuts working. That's it, a quick 3-tap combo. It's more difficult to type the description than to do it.
Happy typing!
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Still doesn't work switching browser tabs on Mac <Command Option Left> or <Command Option Right>)
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How does disabling shorcuts solve the original issue of some Keyboard shortcuts not working on Google docs? Can I somehow disable Googles shortcuts? That is what I would need a shortcut for...
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This has been annoying me for a long time. I'm using Windows 8.1 and only some of the time do the ctrl+alt+1 to ctrl+alt+N keyboard shortcuts work for me in Google Docs to apply a heading of level 1-4. It works 100% of the time on the mac (cmd+option+N).
I'm using a wireless Logitech keyboard, but when that doesn't work and I type the shortcut directly on the laptop it still doesn't work. Usually I encounter this problem in larger Google Docs (50+ pages)
I've checked all the keyboard shortcut settings in Vivaldi and my extensions, and there don't appear to be any configured for ctrl+alt+N (I think I may be able to use the numpad numbers as a workaround, but that's a literal stretch—of my fingers!)
Does this happen to anyone else?
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Hi!
Have anyone a decision for it? -
@dmitriigolovchenko Ok, I will decision it for you. Google docs bad, Vivaldi good.
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@luetage Where I can buy tickets on your stand-up show?
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@dmitriigolovchenko Remove/change Vivaldi's shortcuts in Vivaldi Settings → Keyboard which are triggering Google Docs.
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@dmitriigolovchenko Everything you need to know has been mentioned in this topic already a long time ago. The only additional/alternative solution I can offer is the installation of a userscript, attempting to block all website shortcuts ☛ https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/459981
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@treego I'm very late to this discussion but where did you go in order to disable vivaldi keyboard shortcuts in google docs?
