Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup

guigirl

@komposten Not to dismiss or ignore your points as such, but to take a slightly different perspective. IMO a large proportion of your described

non-tech friends? Most of them are practially afraid of terminal windows, and have no idea how to do basic debugging

...but not focusing on YOUR friends, simply windozers in general globally, are simply lazy &/or intellectually incurious &/or unable/unwilling to spend any time learning something new. It's always possible for "Linux" to improve [& i'm confident it will continue its fab trajectory of recent years], but i doubt it will ever reach a stage of being viable for a substantial chunk of the windoze cohort i described. Horse, water.

One thing that has gobsmacked me for years wrt the common windozer anti-Linux prejudice & ignorance on the basis of "oh i couldn't possibly learn that", is so many of them seem entirely to miss the obvious point that they didn't emerge from their parents' test-tube already knowing how to use windoze, they had to learn it. For many of these people, it seems to be a case of "i've done my learning, i don't need any more learning".

These illogical & inconsistent attitudes amuse me.

Catweazle

For me in the background it is irrelevant which OS I use, being in 99% on the net, where the use depends on the browser and not on the OS.
Each one is better more or less depending on the use given to them. Windows by default is so easy that my grandmother don't have problems from the beginning, but requires more knowledge of the userthan in linux to turn it into a OS without spyware and without superfluous trash that it brings by default.
Apart for people who get them to play games is quite better than linux or mac, although more than by availability of games than by technical issues.
Linux is a very valid alternative and in recent years for nothing more difficult to handle than windows in a normal use.
Anyway it's advisable to have both OS in dualboot.

pafflick

@guigirl said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

One thing that has gobsmacked me for years wrt the common windozer anti-Linux prejudice & ignorance on the basis of "oh i couldn't possibly learn that", is so many of them seem entirely to miss the obvious point that they didn't emerge from their parents' test-tube already knowing how to use windoze, they had to learn it. For many of these people, it seems to be a case of "i've done my learning, i don't need any more learning".

I don't know if it's prejudice/ignorance/laziness (or something else), but the main thing keeping me from switching to Linux is that I see no possible benefit for me with doing so. Why would I switch from an environment that I know so well, and which has worked without issues for so long to something that I'm not familiar with, something that requires a lot of learning and appears to have multiple issues (while being so unforgiving)?

True, I'm judging by other people's observations, as I haven't tried it myself (for more than a couple of hours), and perhaps my vision is skewed, as I'm mostly dealing with Linux users who experience some issues. But with Windows, I know my way around, and it just works - it does what I want. But when I'm reading some threads here, I'm astounded how even the most basic things can break all of a sudden - things that I just take for granted here, on Windows.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other - that's not the point (and probably not the case). I'm just trying to present things from my perspective. I do want to learn. But I'd rather spend the time learning more about HTML/CSS/JS or fixing hardware, or how to fix some things around the house, or in my car. I can see how this could benefit me. As for learning Linux - I just don't see any meaningful benefits.

You see - I need a car to go to work. I have a popular brand car, made by a corporation that people generally hate. But I'm using it because it takes me where I need to be, and - though far from perfect - it's quite reliable. Some people insist that I should switch to a "better" car, which I never drove. But why would I do that if my car is fully functional and has everything I need? I know how to maintain it, how to fix it when something breaks. And I've seen too many people pulled up to the side of the road in their "better" cars while on my way to work. No, thank you.

Ayespy

@pafflick So, not a WinX fan, but by the same token, I refuse to pay double the price for a machine hosting MacOS, and I have never been able to depend on Linux. I have literally never had a Linux install that always continued to boot after updates, and which let me install software and hook up hardware universally and without issues.

That said, if MS ultimately REQUIRES me to join their "let us spy on you" network to run their pay-for OS, I am likely to bite the bullet and begin a full migration to Linux, despite that I am pushing 70 and supposedly too old to learn things. To be sure, the main thing that is holding me back at this stage is the possibility of permitting an update and getting an unbootable system as a result. THAT is a persistent Linux possibility, and one which I cannot countenance.

Not to reveal too much, but I get $100/hr US to do my job, I do my job on my desktop, and I will be damned if I will spend a couple of hours to rehab a system which was "free," but is literally costing me money to get back into operating condition. THAT is not in the cards.

Catweazle

@ayespy , Windows currently is the safest and most stable OS, but the less private by default, that is the problem At least it permits to get rid of it in this aspect if you know how. There are also a lot of tools out there to convert Windows in a fast and private OS (at least until the next updates). But I am with @pafflick, it needs knowledge, more than in Linux, private by default (but with other problems).

Regarding handling, I do not agree that Linux is more complicated to use than Windows, at least not in recent years in most distros. I was using Kubuntu for a while on my old PC, with which I never had problems and with which I cleared up in a few minutes. The differences with the handling of Windows, at least in normal tasks, is insignificant (different file extensions for executables and little else).

But apart from this, if I have a fast and save OS, that I have tamed and customized to my liking, why should I change it? It won't make sense.

guigirl

Boring word salad.

I fully accept that for various reasons, reasonable or not, many or maybe most windozers will never even try Linux, let alone actually bother to properly explore it, learn about it, & actively consider changing to it. I mean, until late 2013 i was a full-time 20+ year windozer [win3 to win7, with mostly overwhelming incompetence in dos] who had never even heard of Linux [genuinely true, i had Not One Clue about it, including that it even existed... then, in 2013 when i first heard of it, i didn't even know it was an OS].

All thru those windozing years, i was in no way... no way whatsoever ... an advanced sophisticated user. I was & remain not a coder. I never worked in any part of the IT industry. I merely bumbled my way thru my careers using aspects of IT that aided productivity, but not necessarily understanding what went on beneath the surface in any kind of sophisticated way.

Yet, this self-described numpty dweeb, in late 2013, decided she was curious about this new-to-her odd thingie called Linux... even more curious once she learned it was an OS, not some esoteric app/program as she had initially supposed. I mean, til then, i did not even know there was anything other than windoze or mac extant for Josephine Average to use on her home pc.

Yet here i am now, running ArchLinux KDE on my main pc [with numerous other distros tried before getting here in Dec 2019] in a dual-boot arrangement with SparkyLinux Cinnamon as my second-boot. I love using it, i really lurve it, it's so much fun, so reliable, so flexible, & so damn customisable. I could never go back. And even though i now do run Arch, i am still every bit a numpty dweeb, who has learned little bits & pieces along this fun journey, but who also remains aware she is still not a sophisticated advanced user, just a plodder.

TL;DR = IMO, i am proof positive that a helluva lot of windozers could easily make the same journey & love it. The only requirements are curiosity, time, & willingness to play & learn.

Ayespy

@guigirl said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

curiosity, time, & willingness

Aye, there's the rub.

guigirl

@ayespy Yes, i know ... i felt it was very important that i explicitly acknowledge that point.

But...

...nobody, not even nobody, says that all the learning & playing has to occur all at once, or in a very compressed timeframe.

Eg, i continued using win7 as my daily system for ~6 - 12 months after that fateful Dec 2013 decision to begin discovering & learning about this odd Linux thingie. I began by teaching myself how to use VirtualBox, then created my first ever three VMs on my win7 Lappy [i did not have my dedicated Linux tower back then, merely a solitary laptop] for three different Linux distro ISOs i downloaded. Also, i should mention, back then i was still two years away from taking early retirement so was still working extremely long days ... all my playing & learning only happened in my downtime.

Once my VM playing & learning progressed to the point it was clear to me that Linux was sensational, the next step many months later was to convert my Lappy's SSD from 100% win7, to dual-boot win7 + Linux [which, iirc, might have been Mint 16 KDE]. Then, i spent as much time as i could in the Linux boot, learning learning learning, discovering the semi-infinite range of apps, then slowly began a methodical process of exploring potential Linux app replacements for my various daily win apps. I only booted back into win7 when i still needed to do stuff that i'd not yet nutted out a replacement Linux workflow.

By late 2014 [see, i did say this process does not have to be fast] i was so utterly enchanted by the Linux universe, & had worked out all my app replacements, & altered workflows where unavoidable, that i decided to treat myself to a new toy, being a nice big juicy tower i'd dedicate to Linux + heaps of VMs to play even more with other Nixes. By 2015 windoze no longer existed on my Lappy at all, & only in my Tower in a couple of VMs.

It really can be done. Furthermore, i suspect but can't prove, the amusement i feel these days with all the user-antiprivacy infractions of win10 & win11, is intensified by having come from windoze, not being a born Nixer.

Ayespy

@guigirl said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

nobody...says that all the learning & playing has to occur all at once, or in a very compressed timeframe.

Which is why I poke and prod at it a (very) little at a time. I kind of suspect that you are, and have been, master of your own time at home. Were I, I might proceed a bit differently. But everything and everyone get some input into my schedule - customers/clients, spouse, horses, cat, dogs, facilities repairs and maintenance - inside & out, banking/bookkeeping/taxes, shopping, cooking, my kids (business and other consultation and advisement), vehicle upkeep, etc. So necessarily I take on new skillsets and operational knowledge in small bites.

guigirl

@ayespy said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

master of your own time at home

Not always...

@ayespy said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

in small bytes

Fixed it for you.
You're welcome!

Stardust

@pafflick said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

I don't know if it's prejudice/ignorance/laziness (or something else), but the main thing keeping me from switching to Linux is that I see no possible benefit for me with doing so. Why would I switch from an environment that I know so well, and which has worked without issues for so long to something that I'm not familiar with, something that requires a lot of learning and appears to have multiple issues (while being so unforgiving)?

You can look at this like a fun challenge!

the ultimate goal is to find the best Linux OS!
find what you like more rolling or non-rolling Linux OS
find new cool apps available for Linux, maybe some of them are much better than their Windows alternatives
find your favorite Desktop Environment (DE)
find your favorite package manager
find out if you like the Terminal
install you favorite browser for the first time on Linux!

guigirl

@ayespy said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

I poke and prod at it a (very) little at a time.

Forget Linux. That's soooo Last Week. With a very gentle learning curve [ie, needing much less time], here's your new OS.

What could possibly go wrong?

guigirl

If only they had put an equivalent amount of effort into w1 - w7 system designs not prone to BSoDs, as they did in early EEs.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/03/windows-1-0s-been-hiding-a-secret-for-37-years-and-someone-finally-found-it/

ultravio1et

I've been very happy with Linux Mint for years, does everything i need it to pretty much perfectly. Granted i'm not using my laptop to the fullest; only converting video files, checking emails and surfing the net

guigirl

It was so hilarious that i laughed out loud when i read this.

On top of the hacker-paradisic insecurity, the ads, the telemetric spyware, online accounts & the megalomaniacal intolerance of non-redmond browsers [etc?], there's the ongoing idiocy of the OEM dictating to users what they will & won't do with their UI. When win10doze belatedly allowed the stodgy bottom panel to be repositioned, i was grudgingly admiring, whilst still mocking it for absence of additional customisation granularity. Now with win11doze, redmond just brazenly stakes their traditional colours to the mast.

KDE, MATE, Xfce & Cinnamon [we don't mention our ugly inbred second-cousin GNOME; she's such an embarrassment that we keep her chained up under the rear verandah] all effortlessly facilitate the user putting her panel top bottom rhs or lhs, then make major additions deletions & rearrangements of all the graphical elements therein, & create additional panels if she wishes [or indeed, have none].

Shirley it must be simply galling for windozing Vivaldifarians, benefiting from V's obviously ginormous UI & function customisability, to then have to use their fav flexible browser in a ridiculously inflexible OS UI? Cognitive dissonance bigly much? Brutally ironic juxtaposition?

Onya, redmond -- yet more comedy gold from you.

Stardust

@guigirl said in Windows 11 Pro will require a Microsoft Account and Internet connection during setup:

It was so hilarious that i laughed out loud when i read this.

I have to agree with Microsoft on this, the most perfect position of the taskbar is the bottom of the screen

But this one is just unacceptable!

Unfortunately, another Windows 10 taskbar feature is sorely missed, which is the ability to uncombine open windows for the same program.

Pesala

How to Bypass Account Setup

How to Skip Microsoft Account Setup When Installing Windows 11

Type [email protected] for the user account name
Type nothanks for the password

This will generate an error:

Someone has entered an incorrect password too many times. To help protect you, we've temporarily locked your account. Please try again later.

LocutusOfBorg

Arch Linux or Arch based distros are your friends. FLOCK WindBLOWS.

Hadden89

@Stardust
It seems that using a very awkard mail address - for example [email protected] as MS account - will trigger the Local Account setup which is pretty much hilarious; other ways exists but this is the fastest one

Stardust

@Hadden89 good to know, thanks!