I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox 😇
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@guigirl Yes.
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@tbgbe , these are the ones who always complain that the browser is slow, right?
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:This post is a presage of apparently impending behavioural change heading to vanilla Firefox.
vanilla Firefox?
Don't you think it's too extreme? Maybe FF-B would be much better choice?
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Code for more space for tabs: (to the right)
.titlebar-button.titlebar-restore, .titlebar-button.titlebar-min, hbox.titlebar-spacer {display: none !important;} tabs#tabbrowser-tabs {width: 1550px !important;} toolbarbutton#tabs-newtab-button.toolbarbutton-1 {width: 40px !important; padding-left: 20px !important;}
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I opened firefox and was greeted with a nice ad for Mozilla VPN
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Bigly gigglesome.
https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/oc8n4r/mozilla_needs_to_target_the_furry_demographic_to/
Why only 39% upvotes!
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@stardust said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Why only 39% upvotes!
People are not kind to furry foxes
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Usage hasn't risen since proton update.
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@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Usage hasn't risen since proton update.
Yeah! Want to keep your userbase, stop remove useful features!
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@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:People are not kind to furry foxes
We need a new browser - Firecat!
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:My vote unequivocally goes to Fireroo.
Meet Fireroo, the new browser for Youu!
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I use Firefox as my browser exclusively, as for me no other browser (and certainly no Chrom* [Chromium/Chrome] based browser) is ready for prime time yet.
In the modern era of software development, where the trend is to rip out options and make everything a simplistic, dumbed-down, "one size fits none" slice of mediocrity, Vivaldi (like my choice of desktop environment, KDE Plasma) is a very refreshing change... a recognition that one size does not fit all, and never has.
That is the niche Firefox used to occupy, but Mozilla has been chasing that same simplistic mediocrity as everyone else for more than a decade now, and they've made some great strides in eradicating everything about Firefox that made it superior to its competition. They still haven't rid it of all of what makes it better, though, and it is those lingering vestiges of a time long past, a time when Firefox dared to be better than the product from the overbearing corporate giant trying to dominate the web, that keep me on Firefox to this day.
Mozilla has been trying to be Chrome for about as many years as its market share has been in freefall, and even as those of us who fight the efforts of Mozilla itself in order to keep Mozilla's product usable have been sounding that alarm bell, they keep flipping the bird to their few remaining users while pursuing the same failed strategy to lure over the Chrome users that are the least likely to switch.
I use Firefox now despite the efforts of Mozilla, not because of them. Mozilla hasn't yet chopped all of the good out of Firefox, but each month brings new disappointment as their latest blunder is discovered. By that time, the decision is written in stone, and any request to revert the error will be greeted with a "Resolved WONTFIX" and a snarky message that we should have brought it up during the discussion (that they had among themselves on their bug tracker, which most people are not even aware of), and that now it is too late. It wouldn't have mattered if we did bring it up during the discussion (which was really a discussion about how to implement the feature deletion, not whether to implement it), though, as the result is the same: Mozilla tells the person that this is how they decided it will be, and that's that.
It is at the point now where I consider it inevitable that Mozilla will remove some feature that I will not live without, and that, as they say, will be that. If Firefox forks can take up that slack, I will certainly investigate that, but those cannot exist without Mozilla doing the heavy lifting on maintaining the rendering engine and the rest of the backend stuff. How long can Mozilla keep doing that when their market share continues to fall? How long can one or two person developers keep a long deleted feature backported before the code base is too far removed for that to be feasible?
As such, it looks like it will come to pass that one day I will have no realistic choice than to move on to a Chrom* browser, and the only decent one of which I am aware is Vivaldi. But all Chromium browsers I have tested fall flat compared to Firefox in one way that matters to me, which is in the scrolling performance. I use laptops with touchpads (of the "precision" type) a lot, and on these, every Chrom* browser I have tested on Windows or Linux stutters and judders terribly.I have tried lots of addons, lots of settings within those addons, and lots of flags, but none have fixed it. It's possible to improve it a bit, but not to fix it. Firefox's scrolling is so deliciously smooth... it's hard to tolerate the choppiness of any Chrom* browser now.
In addition, the Firefox UI can still be corrected (according to my own idea of correctness, of course) more than is possible (AFAIK) with VIvaldi. I can get Vivaldi fairly close, but not all the way there. Here's a screenshot of how my Firefox looks (most of the credit belongs to Aris-T2, developer of the Classic Theme Restorer addon before the Quantum leap backward):
Titlebar on top, then the File, Edit... menubar below that, then the URL/nav bar, complete with zoom buttons in the correct position between the URL and search fields, then the tab bar, with new tab button far left (well, almost, as the actual far left is the sidebar button) and the close tab button far right. Below that is the content, then below that is the status bar, with the most-used addon icons on the right side.
It's how Firefox looked when Firefox's look was based on usability and not on trying to be Chrome.
Why Vivaldi still has not provided the "tabs not on top" option (tab bar between the URL bar and the content) that people have been requesting for so long, I do not know, but .css comes to the rescue (as it does in Firefox). I've moved the new tab button to the far left, but I have not figured out how to move the close tab button to the right. I have an addon that moves the close tab button to the right, but up one line, and it's close, but not just right. I also have not been able to put the most-used addon buttons in the status bar.
So far, I can still fold, spindle, and mutilate Firefox into what I want the UI to look like. I've been able to overcome their deletion of the unread tab status (addon plus CSS), their deletion of the status bar (CSS), their "tabs on top" copy of how Chrome did it (CSS), and their inane idea that we all need gigantic UI elements because we all have touchscreens now (prefs and CSS). I have little doubt, sadly, that this will change, as things that get hidden behind prefs (compact mode, turning off Proton, user stylesheets) don't usually have much of a life expectancy in Firefox. I'm dangling by a thread, and Mozilla has a big pair of scissors that they've been using with wild abandon.
I only hope that the stuttering, juddering performance of Chrom* is fixed by the time Mozilla does this. If Google fixes this, it will work its way downstream to all of the derivatives. If not, it is likely to remain as it is on all of the Chrom* offspring, and that is unfortunate.
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@ascaris said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Titlebar on top, then the File, Edit... menubar below that, then the URL/nav bar, complete with zoom buttons in the correct position between the URL and search fields, then the tab bar, with new tab button far left (well, almost, as the actual far left is the sidebar button) and the close tab button far right.
Why do you need Titlebar and menubar?
I like my tabs to be on top edge of the screen, the best place to quickly select, move and close (by MMB) the tabs
Zoom buttons
Here is a Feature Request to add Zoom buttons in Vivaldi -
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@guigirl finally, he made a right choice
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@stardust Part of it is that it's the way things have always been, but there is a reason that the things were designed the way they were 'back in the day.'
The titlebar is the best place to grab the window or to see the full title of the tab I am on (not constrained by having to fit into whatever area is left). When it comes to Dolphin (file explorer) windows, there's enough room for the full path.
I usually have any given window I am using maximized, but I often drag the titlebar away to unmaximize it and move it aside (while mentally keeping track of where it is) to quickly see some other window I have positioned somewhere, and I don't want to try to find a place to grab that isn't also taken up by some other purpose.
Having the browser use a conventional titlebar is also consistent with the way the rest of the applications behave within the desktop environment.
I have too many tabs open, generally, to want to share that space with anything else. The tab bar needs all the space available! Having the tabs under the menubar is also consistent with the way other applications with tabs behave (Dolphin, Kate), and was the way Firefox always did things until it started trying to be Chrome.
The menubar is still IMO the best UI convention ever developed. Nothing else has the intuitiveness and information scent (more below), and that was why it was a prominent part of the original Mac (1984) UI design and the Windows 95 UI design, both of which were based on a great deal of research into how people think and process information. The alternative is usually to have something akin to the Vivaldi button or a hamburger button as in Chrome, both of which (by design) have the effect of hiding UI elements, long recognized as a bad (non-intuitive) practice in UI design.
There was an article I read about a mobile app dev who deep-sixed the menubar in favor of the ever-present hamburger menu, and he found that user engagement of all of the things behind the hamburger dropped significantly. He (to his credit!) redesigned the app again, bringing back a form of the menubar, and utilization of the features in question came back up. For UI design, "out of sight, out of mind" is a real factor. The hamburger button is widely recognized as a UI design mistake, but it persists nonetheless.
The File, Edit, View... headings give cues about what is behind them to the user. They hint at what options are behind each, which UI designers call "information scent." You may not see the options directly, but you get a "whiff" of what is there by looking at the heading on the menubar. You don't get that from a hamburger menu, and it takes more clicks to drill down to what you need.
That is related to why I put the new tab button and close tab button in fixed positions, as they were when Firefox wasn't trying to be Chrome. UI elements should be in a predictable (fixed) location, and the Chrome method of using a floating new tab button (to the left of the open tabs) and a close button on the tab itself means that both elements move around.
I know that the idea is that the new tab button is where the new tab will appear, but I really don't need to be aware of the relative position of the new tab right when I open it. It's the active tab, so I don't actually need to find it! It's already active. When I close the tab, I use the close button with a fixed position, and through that whole cycle, I never needed to be specifically aware of the tab's position in the tab bar. I have things set to close in Z-order, so when I close that tab, the previously selected appears, and I can often browse in that way for some time without having to specifically think about which tab is where on the tab bar. I don't want to need to be aware of that until I actually need to, but the "modern" way of doing things kind of forces this.
That's just how I operate, and while my own standards for how a UI on my PC (for use by myself, IOW) should look and behave are quite rigid, I also recognize that not everyone shares the same opinion. That's why I like options. Lots of them!
With the modern trend in software being toward minimalism, options have largely gone out of favor, with some software devs believing that options are mostly used by users to work around bugs or design errors, so the real goal is to eliminate those, in which case few options are needed. That's nonsense, though, because it assumes that in the absence of bugs or errors, there will be One True Way of doing things that everyone would automatically agree on. There is no such thing as having something universally correct for everyone. One size does not, and never has, fit all!
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@ascaris , you can see the full title of the page also in the tab. Title bar isn't really needed.
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@ascaris said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:The titlebar is the best place to grab the window or to see the full title of the tab I am on (not constrained by having to fit into whatever area is left).
Probably useful sometimes, I agree. But it occupies a vertical space.
I usually have any given window I am using maximized, but I often drag the titlebar away to unmaximize it and move it aside (while mentally keeping track of where it is) to quickly see some other window I have positioned somewhere, and I don't want to try to find a place to grab that isn't also taken up by some other purpose.
Yea, when tab bar is full of tabs there are not many options to grab the window (you still have a little space at the end though).
Sometimes I use Super +
or Super + 
or Super + dragHaving the browser use a conventional titlebar is also consistent with the way the rest of the applications behave within the desktop environment.
Sure, and there are many different DEs. And the browser is a very special app.
Having the tabs under the menubar is also consistent with the way other applications with tabs behave (Dolphin, Kate), and was the way Firefox always did things until it started trying to be Chrome.
IIRC tabs on top were in Opera [presto] before chrome.
The menubar is still IMO the best UI convention ever developed. Nothing else has the intuitiveness and information scent
Sure, if you constantly use menu items it's useful to have it, otherwise it can be hidden to free some precious vertical space. In rare cases if you need it just press Alt (in Firefox) or Crtl+M (in Vivaldi)
offtopic: Crtl+M doesn't work every time in Vivaldi, bug?
That is related to why I put the new tab button and close tab button in fixed positions, as they were when Firefox wasn't trying to be Chrome.
I have close button disabled because I use MMB, in Firefox I can click by MMB on the tab bar to open a new tab, the old Opera also had this feature, but it's still missing in Vivaldi.
Fixed button position is interesting idea, but I have never tried that
