What is stopping you from using V all the time?
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What stops me from using Vivaldi ALL the time? Poorer performance on videos than other browsers like Opera and Chrome, for me. (Windows 7, 32-bit)
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@steffie For many of us, there are specific things that V cannot do, and that's what this topic is about. In my case, there is one remaining showstopper on touch/pen systems and I therefore use firefox quantum on my surface. I'll switch to V immediately that gets fixed. So this topic is pretty much bug reporting by stealth, but it's bug reporting at the showstopper level - things that mean the user goes off and finds some other browser. Well worth knowing I think.
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@aach1 Hiya. Your point is well-made & [of course] valid, but possibly might not be central to the intent of this thread... or it might be totally central & i'm just missing the point.
The reason for my doubt over your example is coz it represents a case beyond a technology design asymptote [which is mathematically invalid so that's stupid of me] in that V is not yet targeted [???] at touch/pen systems, in the same way as it's not yet targeted at Android phones [hence i do not post complaints about why can't V be used on my phone?].
What i imagined that this thread aimed at [but again i concede i might be utterly wrong] was for that cohort of angry users we witness here fairly frequently who complain bitterly that another browser opens their 500 tabs the day before they launch it whereas V takes longer & hence V is crap so they refuse to use V but instead wanna come here & whine, if not actually troll.
I mean if a user is willing to reject V on some strange basis like that & then actively choose to go to another browser with demonstrably less features & functions, they were probably never V's target users anyway. Similarly in the 2015 period of V's genesis many snapshots [or whatever they were called back then, i forget now] were quite hideously unstable & spontaneously closed, or otherwise ex-parotted [beautiful plumage, the Norwegian Blue] at the drop of a hat. There was a time back then that it was a bit hard to keep loving V because of the instability. Though i acknowledge there's still individual users today posting about closures & tab failures, i suggest that for the great majority of users V is eminently stable & massively useful.
It was in that context that i suggested this topic might now be obsolete. Once again though i readily concede that my interpretation might be fallacious.
♀ 🇦🇺
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I use it all the time since yesterday.
By the way, it doesn't support emojis. I need to open Notes, write it there, and only after I can copy-paste it to Vivaldi. -
@steffie understood. I hadn't realised that V wasn't targeted at touch/pen systems, partly because it works almost perfectly (now - no more total hangups). I'm typing this note in V on a Surface and if it weren't for the one remaining thing (to do with gmail labels) I'd be carrying on later to read my email in it also. Way back, I may have posted here something about the pen etc., and to your point I see that that probably was an unfair use of this thread. But right now, as far as I can see, V is so close to working perfectly on these systems that the remaining few things really do answer the description of the title.
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@steffie said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:
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I mean if a user is willing to reject V on some strange basis like that & then actively choose to go to another browser with demonstrably less features & functions, they were probably never V's target users anyway. Similarly in the 2015 period of V's genesis many snapshots ... were quite hideously unstable & spontaneously closed, or otherwise ex-parotted ... at the drop of a hat. There was a time back then that it was a bit hard to keep loving V because of the instability. Though i acknowledge there's still individual users today posting about closures & tab failures, i suggest that for the great majority of users V is eminently stable & massively useful.
...You've (perhaps unintentionally) explained a lot of the MyOpera forum turmoil exhibited in 2012-13 when Opera moved from Presto to Blink, and soon thereafter. That move, and a lot of the surrounding forum rancor, was really a surface manifestation of an underlying change in user targeting that had occurred within the company. When the Blink Opera versions first appeared (v15 and those soon following), there was extensive dismissal and mockery of the major user outcry that resulted from all the specific, major browser functionality and feature omissions, as well as a perceptible move away from "community".
While it was stated by Opera at the time that much of the "simplifying" was being done as a result of adopting Blink and as part of adding better-appealing interfacing for the mass-market crowd (and whatever was deemed typical of such users), it was not so apparent that what had really occurred was a strategic corporate retargeting of the browser away from the primary existing user class to a new and different one in hopes of increasing market share (and stockholder 'value'). As a result, those users on both sides who were involved in those forum debates often were talking past each other, because we failed to appreciate that the corporate browser target had actually and firmly been changed, regardless.
The retargeting of Opera away from its long-time primary user base left a void that has been acutely felt by users ever since... and one of the reasons some of them still run Opera 12 to this day. Vivaldi was conceived as "a browser for our friends"; and given that many users are familiar with Jon being a key founder of the original Opera, they understand what that phrase means in a way that perhaps not necessarily everyone else does... it's about the chosen targeting of the browser philosophy, design, and community. It's also why Vivaldi's real 'friends' are patient with the pace and with all the ups and downs of the development track as it unfolds. They know the end is, and will be, worth it.
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@blackbird said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:
Vivaldi's real 'friends' are patient with the pace and with all the ups and downs of the development track as it unfolds. They know the end is, and will be, worth it.
Bingo.
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@blackbird Well said, thank you. This almost brought back some of the reminiscences to the old Opera forums...
Now, how do we bring this point across to all those which seemingly don't belong (yet) into the targeted user group?
Vivaldi Snapshot (current as soon as possible) on MacOS Sierra and High Sierra. Enough RAM.
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@morg42 We just be patient with them and let them know that the things they are looking for will be along in time. With luck, the longer they use Vivaldi, the more dissatisfied they will become with everything else, and more willing to hang in there while Vivaldi grows and evolves.
Volunteer Mod and tester on Windows 11 Home X64, i7-13700 @ 5.4 GHz turbo; Intel UHD 770 graphics; 1TB NV2 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD; 32 GB DDR4-3200 RAM. Community Code of Conduct
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@ayespy I kind of doubt that most of them bring the necessary patience... but nevermind, we have it
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@morg42 I think a big part of it is to continue patiently focusing on the many features and configurability of Vivaldi whenever possible, while continuing to call for patience on the part of those expressing dissatisfaction at some missing or mis-performing thing. This is a key part of 'community'... supporting one another, listening, and having honest dialogue while not losing patience with those who experience a fault or lack while there are so many positive things that draw us together.
Product forums necessarily focus heavily on user browser problems and complaints, consequently there can easily occur an overhanging cloud of negativity and frustration. I think the tone of our responses can de-escalate the negativity and supply a level and positive outlook, even if we can't always offer constructive suggestions at that moment. Fortunately, we've got some amazingly-patient mods here to promote that!
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@blackbird I find that the most typically impatient user is one who sees Vivaldi as a completed, but defective, product, concerning which there is little or nothing to do other than bug-fixing, tweaks, or adding minor features and options. This same user will likely see something like pop-out video as a trivial bit of coding that could be tossed off by a single coder in a week, and can't readily understand why Vivaldi didn't just come out of the box with all of the characteristics the user was used to in their old browser, PLUS all of the options the team worked so hard to create. Again, they see the product as finished - but defective.
They kind of assume that the level of development that comes from hundreds of devs that have had ten to thirty years to work on their product, is the way all free stuff they can download off the web should be assumed to be.
The more we can help users to understand that we're not even halfway there yet, the more I think they will be kind of amazed that something this raw is already this awesome, and the more they will want to hang around to see what comes next.
Volunteer Mod and tester on Windows 11 Home X64, i7-13700 @ 5.4 GHz turbo; Intel UHD 770 graphics; 1TB NV2 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD; 32 GB DDR4-3200 RAM. Community Code of Conduct
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@ayespy said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:
The more we can help users to understand that we're not even halfway there yet, the more I think they will be kind of amazed that something this raw is already this awesome, and the more they will want to hang around to see what comes next.
That's very optimistic of you. A more realistic reaction is for the user to just move on and use something that works – and maybe check back once or twice to see if something has changed, or to never look back at all. I obviously don't have the numbers, but I think this is a problem for Vivaldi right now.
Instead of superficially dividing users into "real friends" and friends and thereby casually alienating the majority of the user base, we should let members speak out about their issues with Vivaldi in peace, especially in a thread like this…The personal reasoning and the individual concerns are valid after all.
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@luetage My role is to always let users speak of their issues. But since we cannot develop any faster than we are, and since user concerns take time to resolve, we have no option but to counsel patience. There is no such possibility as "Oh, sorry. I'll drop everything and fix that right now."
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@luetage So here is an example:
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/24707/open-items-from-history-list-in-background/3
Read the comments and arguments of users here from top to bottom. User wants a feature that "every" browser has (and I suppose that may be correct) but that I have never heard of and never used in some 28 years or so of browsing in everything from Netscape to IE to Firefox, Opera, Chromium, Chrome, Otter, Vivaldi, to what-have-you. I have no use for the feature, no desire to see it or to use it, and no way to fit it into my work flow.
Another user claims it is "fundamental" to browser usability, stating "It is basic functionality and absolutely very easy to make, maybe 10 minutes for programmer." Clearly, we have a browser developer here, with knowledge that is superior to the knuckleheads that build Vivaldi, since our devs have no sense of fundamentals, priorities, user needs, or how to code.
So what to do with something like this? All there is, is to offer a workaround and/or invite the user to submit a feature request, file a bug report, or be patient. No one, and I mean no one, who reads or comments on the forums can say "Oh, sorry. I'll build that for you today." It may or may not be a reason a specific user does not use Vivaldi all the time - but every single feature that every other browser has and that new users expect to be present, simply cannot be top priority and worked on within hours or minutes of reporting, when you have a small team and goals that are not to be the same as everyone, but rather different from everyone.
That's why I advise helping users to become patient, if they are not already.
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But any reason why a user cannot switch to Vivaldi as their default browser has to make it onto the "to do" list, and we just have to get as much of it done as we can, when we can.
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@treego I still use Vivaldi of late about 99.5% of the time, though! It's terrific!
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@ayespy All, I think this thread ("what's stopping you...") is actually really useful. It's not exactly heavily used so most people aren't posting here as a way of publicizing their pet peeve, and so I think it's doing what its name implies: letting people who would use V all the time say why they aren't. It's identifying things in the tail of the feature request distribution which really do stop the show for some users. I suspect that most of those who post here ARE V fans who check back fairly regularly to see whether their particular showstopper has been fixed. I'm not saying that these items are obviously higher priority than any others, but the fact that someone chooses (no - NEEDS) to use Firefox or Edge instead of V must have signal in it somewhere.
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For me it is the huge copy / paste bug on macOS others have reported.
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@rsaeks I have found that the Mac version is really behind the windows version. At my job I am forced to used windows and I switched to Vivaldi on that full time. At home, however, I have a MacBook and can't make the switch to Vivaldi. It drains my battery almost twice as fast as Safari. Also, favicons are blurry and my speakers pop every time I start it. There are just too many bugs on Mac.
