What is stopping you from using V all the time?

[TbGbe]

@exaskryz said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

It's difficult to try to right click and drag exactly to the right; if I at all arch my drag down, it won't open the link in a new tab. So it's taking multiple attempts to open a link, leading to frustrating.

You can configure the gesture to drag any direction: left, right, up or down (or even diagonals) in Tools/Settings/Mouse. For both new tab (foreground) and new tab (background)

The gesture is unreliable because I'm on a touchpad.

However, I admit that may/does change things.

It's my belief that a browser should work for the user, not that the user should work for the browser.

That is the credo of Vivaldi as well.

Perhaps you should add a reply to the feature request thread (check if drag to open and drag to search etc are already there first - however, there are a lot of posted requests already).
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/22411/feature-requests-for-vivaldi-1-14

Note: One request per reply/post to allow voting

[Syberiyxx]

Tabs are not high enough contrast to be able to differentiate them when they are not the active tab.

Would like to be able to type a website and hit tab to search within that site.

Search results while typing. Please make that an option.

[Pesala]

@syberiyxx

1. Try different themes, or edit your own
2. Add a custom Search Engine for that site
3. Vote for Find in Page as you Type

[Steffie]

What is stopping you from using V all the time?

Tis such a weird obsolete question. Mods, surely this thread warrants closure by now?

Answer = nothing... ever since Feb 2015.

[Pesala]

@steffie said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

Tis such a weird obsolete question.

There's obviously nothing stopping you or I from using Vivaldi as our default browser since we made that jump years ago. However, there are sure to be many new users who cannot adjust to make the leap from their previous browser.

It is going to be a valid question for some years yet.

[Steffie]

@pesala Yeah, i agree with you. I'm just a little grumpy coz i haven't gone & made my morning coffee yet In seriousness though, some of the "justifications" some people offer for their anti-V stance are either trivial or even fatuous... sometimes it just gets to me & i push back a bit.

Actually, i reckon you are an excellent example of pragmatism. Those of us here for a while are aware that you still use O12 daily for your email, but V for your actual browsing. If you were less pragmatic & more febrile [as i perceive many who whinge about V to be], you might instead have cut your nose off to spite your face, with some silly attitude that "if V cannot do every single thing i want, & do it perfectly, right now, then it's a crap browser & i ain't gonna use it". Yes i wrote that with histrionic hyperbole for effect, but that's an exaggerated version of the silly tone i sometimes perceive here from some of the posters.

[Blackbird]

Customize v - to build, fit, or alter to individual specifications.

Vivaldi is a browser that is intentionally designed to allow users to greatly customize their browser interface to suit themselves. As a result, it especially attracts those individuals who may each have strong ideas about what they want to be able to customize, how, and under which conditions. If their particular customization favorites or ideas aren't present or don't rank high in priority with the thoughts of others, such users can get very expressive in their frustration. This is not nearly such a problem for plain-vanilla-interface browsers and the users who are happy with them, and would probably not be as common in Vivaldi's forums as it currently is, if such users had numerous other browser choices each offering the promise of significant customization as well. That, in turn, stands as a sorry testimony to the state of the browser marketplace and the one-size-fits-all mentality that has overtaken so many browser makers and users alike. Once again, thanks to Vivaldi for keeping the spirit of user customization alive and well...

[treego]

What stops me from using Vivaldi ALL the time? Poorer performance on videos than other browsers like Opera and Chrome, for me. (Windows 7, 32-bit)

[aach1]

@steffie For many of us, there are specific things that V cannot do, and that's what this topic is about. In my case, there is one remaining showstopper on touch/pen systems and I therefore use firefox quantum on my surface. I'll switch to V immediately that gets fixed. So this topic is pretty much bug reporting by stealth, but it's bug reporting at the showstopper level - things that mean the user goes off and finds some other browser. Well worth knowing I think.

[Steffie]

@aach1 Hiya. Your point is well-made & [of course] valid, but possibly might not be central to the intent of this thread... or it might be totally central & i'm just missing the point.

The reason for my doubt over your example is coz it represents a case beyond a technology design asymptote [which is mathematically invalid so that's stupid of me] in that V is not yet targeted [???] at touch/pen systems, in the same way as it's not yet targeted at Android phones [hence i do not post complaints about why can't V be used on my phone?].

What i imagined that this thread aimed at [but again i concede i might be utterly wrong] was for that cohort of angry users we witness here fairly frequently who complain bitterly that another browser opens their 500 tabs the day before they launch it whereas V takes longer & hence V is crap so they refuse to use V but instead wanna come here & whine, if not actually troll.

I mean if a user is willing to reject V on some strange basis like that & then actively choose to go to another browser with demonstrably less features & functions, they were probably never V's target users anyway. Similarly in the 2015 period of V's genesis many snapshots [or whatever they were called back then, i forget now] were quite hideously unstable & spontaneously closed, or otherwise ex-parotted [beautiful plumage, the Norwegian Blue] at the drop of a hat. There was a time back then that it was a bit hard to keep loving V because of the instability. Though i acknowledge there's still individual users today posting about closures & tab failures, i suggest that for the great majority of users V is eminently stable & massively useful.

It was in that context that i suggested this topic might now be obsolete. Once again though i readily concede that my interpretation might be fallacious.

[vldmr]

I use it all the time since yesterday. By the way, it doesn't support emojis. I need to open Notes, write it there, and only after I can copy-paste it to Vivaldi.

[aach1]

@steffie understood. I hadn't realised that V wasn't targeted at touch/pen systems, partly because it works almost perfectly (now - no more total hangups). I'm typing this note in V on a Surface and if it weren't for the one remaining thing (to do with gmail labels) I'd be carrying on later to read my email in it also. Way back, I may have posted here something about the pen etc., and to your point I see that that probably was an unfair use of this thread. But right now, as far as I can see, V is so close to working perfectly on these systems that the remaining few things really do answer the description of the title.

[Blackbird]

@steffie said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

...
I mean if a user is willing to reject V on some strange basis like that & then actively choose to go to another browser with demonstrably less features & functions, they were probably never V's target users anyway. Similarly in the 2015 period of V's genesis many snapshots ... were quite hideously unstable & spontaneously closed, or otherwise ex-parotted ... at the drop of a hat. There was a time back then that it was a bit hard to keep loving V because of the instability. Though i acknowledge there's still individual users today posting about closures & tab failures, i suggest that for the great majority of users V is eminently stable & massively useful.
...

You've (perhaps unintentionally) explained a lot of the MyOpera forum turmoil exhibited in 2012-13 when Opera moved from Presto to Blink, and soon thereafter. That move, and a lot of the surrounding forum rancor, was really a surface manifestation of an underlying change in user targeting that had occurred within the company. When the Blink Opera versions first appeared (v15 and those soon following), there was extensive dismissal and mockery of the major user outcry that resulted from all the specific, major browser functionality and feature omissions, as well as a perceptible move away from "community".

While it was stated by Opera at the time that much of the "simplifying" was being done as a result of adopting Blink and as part of adding better-appealing interfacing for the mass-market crowd (and whatever was deemed typical of such users), it was not so apparent that what had really occurred was a strategic corporate retargeting of the browser away from the primary existing user class to a new and different one in hopes of increasing market share (and stockholder 'value'). As a result, those users on both sides who were involved in those forum debates often were talking past each other, because we failed to appreciate that the corporate browser target had actually and firmly been changed, regardless.

The retargeting of Opera away from its long-time primary user base left a void that has been acutely felt by users ever since... and one of the reasons some of them still run Opera 12 to this day. Vivaldi was conceived as "a browser for our friends"; and given that many users are familiar with Jon being a key founder of the original Opera, they understand what that phrase means in a way that perhaps not necessarily everyone else does... it's about the chosen targeting of the browser philosophy, design, and community. It's also why Vivaldi's real 'friends' are patient with the pace and with all the ups and downs of the development track as it unfolds. They know the end is, and will be, worth it.

[Ayespy]

@blackbird said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

Vivaldi's real 'friends' are patient with the pace and with all the ups and downs of the development track as it unfolds. They know the end is, and will be, worth it.

Bingo.

[Morg42]

@blackbird Well said, thank you. This almost brought back some of the reminiscences to the old Opera forums...

Now, how do we bring this point across to all those which seemingly don't belong (yet) into the targeted user group?

[Ayespy]

@morg42 We just be patient with them and let them know that the things they are looking for will be along in time. With luck, the longer they use Vivaldi, the more dissatisfied they will become with everything else, and more willing to hang in there while Vivaldi grows and evolves.

[Morg42]

@ayespy I kind of doubt that most of them bring the necessary patience... but nevermind, we have it

[Blackbird]

@morg42 I think a big part of it is to continue patiently focusing on the many features and configurability of Vivaldi whenever possible, while continuing to call for patience on the part of those expressing dissatisfaction at some missing or mis-performing thing. This is a key part of 'community'... supporting one another, listening, and having honest dialogue while not losing patience with those who experience a fault or lack while there are so many positive things that draw us together.

Product forums necessarily focus heavily on user browser problems and complaints, consequently there can easily occur an overhanging cloud of negativity and frustration. I think the tone of our responses can de-escalate the negativity and supply a level and positive outlook, even if we can't always offer constructive suggestions at that moment. Fortunately, we've got some amazingly-patient mods here to promote that!

[Ayespy]

@blackbird I find that the most typically impatient user is one who sees Vivaldi as a completed, but defective, product, concerning which there is little or nothing to do other than bug-fixing, tweaks, or adding minor features and options. This same user will likely see something like pop-out video as a trivial bit of coding that could be tossed off by a single coder in a week, and can't readily understand why Vivaldi didn't just come out of the box with all of the characteristics the user was used to in their old browser, PLUS all of the options the team worked so hard to create. Again, they see the product as finished - but defective.

They kind of assume that the level of development that comes from hundreds of devs that have had ten to thirty years to work on their product, is the way all free stuff they can download off the web should be assumed to be.

The more we can help users to understand that we're not even halfway there yet, the more I think they will be kind of amazed that something this raw is already this awesome, and the more they will want to hang around to see what comes next.

[luetage]

@ayespy said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

The more we can help users to understand that we're not even halfway there yet, the more I think they will be kind of amazed that something this raw is already this awesome, and the more they will want to hang around to see what comes next.

That's very optimistic of you. A more realistic reaction is for the user to just move on and use something that works – and maybe check back once or twice to see if something has changed, or to never look back at all. I obviously don't have the numbers, but I think this is a problem for Vivaldi right now.

Instead of superficially dividing users into "real friends" and friends and thereby casually alienating the majority of the user base, we should let members speak out about their issues with Vivaldi in peace, especially in a thread like this…The personal reasoning and the individual concerns are valid after all.