Unsolved What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?
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note: I love gmail spam handling, but I don't want to use gmail.
I have a bunch of yahoo accounts and they are absolutely terrible, not only do they capture some incoming normal messags on a regular basis and put them in the spam folder.. THEY ALSO CAPTURE OUTGOING... this is a travesty, I don't believe that such a thing should happen unless maybe it was a very good spam filter that would catch actual spam.. but what is happening is a lot of my important questions to various companies, or even requests for refunding bus tickets, etc... get caught in the spam folder, even though they are outgoing messages.. and this causes headaches as you can well imagine.. mail shouldn't be this stressful. This of course is not Vivaldi's fault but I would like to find a service that works well with Vivaldi and DOES NOT EVER flag legitimate outgoing messages as spam
also I don't want to have to train the system, at least on outgoing. gmail works incredible, I don't know why yahoo, which has a huge # of accounts, can't implement something similar.. but anyhow.. yahoo of course is dead to me.
So what about fastmail? or anything else that can be recommended that for sure doesnt' flat legit outgoing as spam? I don't mind paying but only if it doesn't do this.
note: my understanding is Vialdi doesn't do any spam filtering of its own, please correct if wrong.
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@dalinar A user should not have to train it on outgoing, only on incoming.
When using Yahoo and/or AOL through their web sites, marking an Inbox e-mail as Spam, will move it to the Spam folder and should also train their spam filters in the process, to prevent similar messages in the future from reaching Inboxes.
According to this Yahoo Help page, they recommend not managing spam with third-party clients. However, it does not state either way, whether marking a message as spam using a third-party client, will train their spam filters.
If it were me, I would still use Vivaldi Mail to mark any obvious spam messages and see how it goes. I am on some mailing lists using an address hosted at AOL, some of the messages make it to the Inbox and others from the same list go into Spam. I am using Vivaldi Mail to mark those list messages in Spam, as Not Spam and there has been an improvement in the number of messages successfully arriving in the Inbox.
Vivaldi on Linux:
openSUSE Tumbleweed and Slowroll (Xfce 4.20)
Fedora 42 and Rawhide (Xfce 4.20)Android (10)
Vivaldi user since 2016. Thank you to all Vivaldi users.
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Set up a Gmail Purely to Forward all your mail through and you can take advantage of the gmail filtering without actually using the Gmail address as the one people send things to
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@edwardp I'm not sure how accurate my initial post is... because this is what I have noticed at least from outgoing messages I compose in Vivaldi...
the weird thing is that when I compose and send in Vivaldi, then it goes to the Spam folder in Vivladi.
At this point in time I do not do anything more.. I leave it in the Vivaldi spam folder, log into yahoo web mail... and it is not in the Yahoo web mail spam folder.. it just looks like a normal message in Yahoo web mail.
Then I go for good measure and mark it "not spam" in Vivaldi.
But why would it get moved to the vivaldi spam folder but not the yahoo web mail spam folder?
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@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:
the weird thing is that when I compose and send in Vivaldi, then it goes to the Spam folder in Vivladi
Are you talking about the Spam View in the "All Messages" category, or the folder in "All Accounts - Account name"?Usually on Win11 running Vivaldi Snapshot builds. Opinionated about working efficiently with email. Folders are evil | Mail workflow: receive, read, reply, mark as read, done.
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@WildEnte "All Messages" : Spam
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@dalinar are you using IMAP or POP3? In All Accounts - Accountname, which subfolder do these emails go?
Usually on Win11 running Vivaldi Snapshot builds. Opinionated about working efficiently with email. Folders are evil | Mail workflow: receive, read, reply, mark as read, done.
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@WildEnte I just took a look at All Messages/Spam and found one e-mail that indicated it was in the Inbox folder of one of my AOL accounts, yet it had the spam icon (a bin with an 'x' in it) to the far left of it. This message was not spam and was a couple of weeks old, but the other two messages here, were indeed spam.
I then checked the Inbox folder of the account in question, using Vivaldi Mail, to find the e-mail not present. I then went back to All Messages/Spam and marked the message as Not Spam, which moved it out of All Messages/Spam to the account's Inbox folder, from which I was able to delete it into the account's Trash folder, then empty.
It sounds like something is marking @dalinar 's messages as spam, otherwise, why would they be in All Messages/Spam?
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@edwardp indeed, and this spam marking mechanism also includes sent emails. Now you found an email incorrectly marked with an AOL account, and @dalinar talks about issues with a Yahoo account. Even though I have a hard time believing that Vivaldi is suddenly deciding what's spam and what's not, this is the only common thing?
@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:
the weird thing is that when I compose and send in Vivaldi, then it goes to the Spam folder in Vivladi.
Usually on Win11 running Vivaldi Snapshot builds. Opinionated about working efficiently with email. Folders are evil | Mail workflow: receive, read, reply, mark as read, done.
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@WildEnte said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:
@edwardp indeed, and this spam marking mechanism also includes sent emails. Now you found an email incorrectly marked with an AOL account, and @dalinar talks about issues with a Yahoo account. Even though I have a hard time believing that Vivaldi is suddenly deciding what's spam and what's not, this is the only common thing?
I gather that both Yahoo's and AOL's servers are running the same back-end software.
Since the only spam-related options in Vivaldi Mail are to manually mark/un-mark spam (with their associated keyboard shortcuts) and the option to include spam messages in the message count, it must be the incoming Yahoo and AOL servers before the IMAP servers, that are flagging the messages as spam.
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AFAICS when a received message is marked as spam by user the header information reflect this, as highlighted below:
Did you see something similar for the sent message flagged as spam?
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@yojimbo274064400 No. It displayed Inbox with the account's address.
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@WildEnte they are all yahoo mail accounts, so it connects via imap ( I check vivaldi settings it is imap)
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@WildEnte and it happens to basically every mail I compose in Vivaldi mail and send out.. (end up in the all messages spam folder I mean, but not in a spam folder in yahoo web mail). I say basically because I'm not sure if it happens to every one ever.. but it seems like every one recently at least. I don't send emails too often. From memory before, I would say it didn't happen to every message before.. but it it would happen to any one discussing money.. well and the recent ones mostly discussed money or purchases or transfers.
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@WildEnte just to be clear.. although I'm sure you picked this up already, but maybe for anyone else reading this... the messages that go to All Messages : Spam, do not go to spam in yahoo web mail.
Also, it appears that when I mark messages as read in Vivaldi Mail it does not affect the read status in Yahoo web mail. I just logged into yahoo web mail and all the messages I've marked as read today, are unread there
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here are headers from the latest message that ended up in spam
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Message-Id: <172********.*********@yahoo.com> From: **** <*****> To: **** Subject: Re: **** (does contain some keywords related to money) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:54:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: <CYXP**********************************************@************.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> References: <CYXPR*********************************************@************.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> X-Mailer: Vivaldi Mail User-Agent: Vivaldi Mail/6.8.3381.53 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 -
@dalinar Where the subject matter related to money, it's possible that Yahoo's spam filtering could be trained to see that as potential spam, then placed it in the Spam folder.
Vivaldi on Linux:
openSUSE Tumbleweed and Slowroll (Xfce 4.20)
Fedora 42 and Rawhide (Xfce 4.20)Android (10)
Vivaldi user since 2016. Thank you to all Vivaldi users.
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@edwardp or rather not placed in the folder, just flagged as spam. All messages - spam lists every email that carries the spam flag, regardless of what folder it is in.
Usually on Win11 running Vivaldi Snapshot builds. Opinionated about working efficiently with email. Folders are evil | Mail workflow: receive, read, reply, mark as read, done.
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@edwardp do you mean that yahoo will just place it in the Spam All Messages folder? isn't a vivaldi folder? it definitely doesn't place it in the Yahoo spam folder when you are logged in using their web mail. And it is not just this message, it is all the messages flagged as spam behaving that way... might be a few months ago there were some that also got into the yahoo webmail spam folder but i can't say for sure.. but definitely the last 20+ haven't... they just appear in the Spam All Messages folder
ok I have verified that i do have messages (on another vivaldi profile, using another yahoo account) that are both in the Spam All Messsages folder and the Yahoo webmail spam folder (note: I don't check that webmail for that account often, half the messages were from 2023 there.. the other half i didn't catch the dates of but probably not anything in the last months... so there's a possiblity it is some vivaldi bug in more recent versions than what I was using at the time) but what I say about the email address and profile I was talking about for the entire thread up into this paragraph stands, they don't show up there in the webmail spam folder just all messages vivaldi spam folder.
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@dalinar no, the email apparently carries the spam flag. See
@WildEnte said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:
All messages - spam lists every email that carries the spam flag, regardless of what folder it is in
Usually on Win11 running Vivaldi Snapshot builds. Opinionated about working efficiently with email. Folders are evil | Mail workflow: receive, read, reply, mark as read, done.
