Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi
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@electryon said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
Just have a look at how many people keep asking for it for years lol.
I checked your link, around 15-20 sparsely since 2018, that's literally nothing. I have nothing more to comment on this topic though.
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@npro said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
I checked your link, around 15-20 from 2018, that's literally nothing. I have nothing more to comment on this topic though.
One last comment from me too. I won't comment any more on this topic.
There won't be any confirmation dialog or anything like that added.
I am 100% sure about that.
Why? Because Proton would never agree on this.
Something like that kind of warnings will make the masses and average Joe to think that there is something seriously wrong about Proton and it is some kind of virus that tries to hijack their browser.
Of course it won't be true, but it doesn't matter. This is how the masses think about all these warnings and dialogs.
Why on earth would Proton agree on that. There is a partnership, right? So both partners would have a say on that.
If I were Proton and Vivaldi came and insisted on that, I would call the partnership off because it could harm my brand to unaware people. -
There is only one problem: PayPal will ban you if you use it over a VPN. It happened to me for that very reason. Yes, they do audit.
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Proton VPN wants my email address to log on, so I declined the offer. I was going to test it, but having more spam is one step too far.
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@funtaril But you got a "What's New" page after updating the browser, didn't you? There, it says about they including Proton VPN in V.
Also, look here[@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
the extension definitely installs when you click on the toolbar icon, not when logging in.
Yes, because:
Clicking the VPN icon is considered a positive indication that you actively want to activate/enable the VPN feature. That includes installing the extension (and keep in mind that the VPN logo is in the same area as Extension logos are placed, so it should be a reasonable indication that you are about to access an extension, also the tooltip says "Proton VPN". If you don't know what it is, maybe investigate a bit before clicking?).
It does not get used if you do not actually enable it. Nothing gets handed over unless you choose to actually do so. You can always uninstall the extension if you decide not to use it, but you can also just ignore it and it will do nothing.Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.
So what you and some others seem to want is a dialog saying "Do you REALLY want to install Proton VPN" if it hasn't already been installed, at which point I suspect that a number of users who know what is going on will file bug reports asking us to "remove that unnecessary dialog".You may also look at this Vivaldi Social post https://social.vivaldi.net/@ruario/114235282044540368
With esteem,
"The Phantom from the Opera" -
@Pesala You could just use an alias, what's so hard? Or a temporary email.
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@yngve
While I agree with you on the tendency that users ignore dialogs, it does not mean that software developers should abandon them. People need to be educated regarding safety and privacy, because it serves their own good. I am an IT teacher. It makes me furious when I see my students accept or dismiss dialogs without reading them. I firmly believe that the industry needs to spend more resources on fine-tuning this technology to find the best compromise between being informative and obstrusive.The GDPR/cookie dialogs are the perfect example how it should not be done. But a bad implementation does not mean that the whole concept should be thrown out.
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@ThePfromtheO
Does this page explain the install mechanism of the extension?💻 Intel i3-6006U • 8 GB DDR4 • 256 GB SATA
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@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
What was discovered was that users would ignore (click through) warnings so that they could continue on with what they were doing, even if that meant doing the security/privacy equivalent of driving off a Mount Everest sized cliff (more colorful expressions exists).
Yes, completely agree with you, but you could just implement this for these ducks to have one less reason for making this ruckus.
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@luetage Sorry, but how did you find out it is written by an AI? Did you use AI-detecting software?
With esteem,
"The Phantom from the Opera" -
@ThePfromtheO Just bein' curious
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@Nekomajin No, it doesn't; you're right.
But really, why do you all fight our V (verbally) in such a way? Did you pay for this service? Do you expect it to be perfect? It's not really like you would have got malware installed on your system. Yes, I agree that users have to speak about issues, especially about ones that compromise their freedom, but most of you are like a pack of dogs attacking their lord who fed them, if you don't mind...With esteem,
"The Phantom from the Opera" -
@Nekomajin My point is that due to that tendency, one should be very careful about which dialogs one put in the way of users, and consider whether each is really necessary.
My personal opinion, which not going to be part of what the UI team decides, is that a dialog in this case is unnecessary, as the click should be a sufficient indication that the user want to start using the VPN service.
Developer and Security Expert at Vivaldi.
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@ThePfromtheO
I do mind. I don't think you are entitled to call people names.Half or their posts here and in social media are about privacy, yet they fail to implement a very basic functionality of installing software. And on top of that the only official comment here tries to justify it.
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@yngve
I really don't get your point. What harm can it do if you implement this dialog? -
@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
My personal opinion, which not going to be part of what the UI team decides, is that a dialog in this case is unnecessary, as the click should be a sufficient indication that the user want to start using the VPN service.
I guess most users just click on that button to know what it does, even users who already use alternative vpn extensions in Vivaldi or noob users who have no idea what vpn is. It's also a new icon on address bar, it's expected that people start clicking it. I thought it's obvious.
I have another idea: what if instead of silent installation on icon click, it would just redirect to the Vivaldi Extension page where users can see recommended new Proton VPN extension with the button install/enable
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@ThePfromtheO I read it. There are certain phrases AI commonly uses, the way it is structured, and a superfluous conclusion at the end. It’s not the most brainless use of AI, it’s likely they did edits and of course they added pictures. But I’m pissed nevertheless. In my opinion all authors should state at the beginning of anything they write whether a chat bot was used. I started blacklisting domains I encounter AI on, but it’s an undertaking destined to fail—the internet is flooded by the trash.
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@Nekomajin said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
I do mind. I don't think you are entitled to call people names.
OK, sorry, please excuse me. You're right. Not gonna continue with this.
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@luetage said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:
the internet is flooded by the trash
One of my relatives said about the Internet that It is like a rubbish container. You search in it, sometimes find something good, like an unrotted apple, or maybe even a jewelry. But for that to happen, you have to rummage through all that garbage. And, considering how rarely you manage to find something that's indeed good, do you think this is worth the time and psychical resources?
I can't say, maybe this is a little more like hyperbole than it should, but I still think it's a good analogy. -
Autologin with my Vivaldi credentials does not work on linux... Normal?
(it works on windows)
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