Goodbye Vivaldi Mail

Granite1

After using Vivaldi Mail (VM) for 3 months, I have decided to go back to Thunderbird because VM is too cumbersome, for the following reasons:

“mail to self” is easy to do/easy to forget not to do; deleting those mail messages is a long-winded process and a real PITA.
- Recently it also caused havoc with DNS resolutions.
VM and Feeds share a pane, so you have to switch back and forth, which disrupts the workflow. I am surprised that the Vivaldi dev team accept this since one of the browser's attractions is an efficient, optimized workflow. The VM/Feeds goes against that ethos.

2 more points added today 2024-12-10:

VM lacks a retention policy option.
It is not possible to filter messages to be sent directly to the Trash folder instead of the Spam folder. This defeats the objective of automation as one still needs to go back and delete the spam messages manually.

It seems to me that VM was “bolted on” to the browser because that is what the original Opera had and many people who migrated across from there wanted it. But it has not been done properly so we end up with a janky extension of the browser.

If ever VM is set up properly I might reconsider my decision, but the improvement from today will have to be significant and show a clear advantage over Thunderbird. I suppose that will not happen in the short term, if ever.

mib2berlin

@Granite1
Hi, sad to hear this but I know you had many problems with VM, we call it M3.
I had none of your issues since I use M3 version1.0, some bugs as usual with new software but they got always fixed very quickly.
I never used Thunderbird really, I hate it with passion.
Opera M2 for a long time and KMail on Linux so the change to M3 works flawlessly for me.

Maybe you check again at some point, mib

Granite1

@mib2berlin Hi mib, thanks for your reply. I really tried to like M3 and get used to it but it was becoming too frustrating and using up too much of my time that I would prefer to use for useful things.

Yes, there are things about Thunderbird I don't like either, which is why I was optimistic when I migrated from Brave to Vivaldi and got a mail client into the bargain.

But, on balance, Thunderbird is a lot less frustrating, and I really mean a lot less, frustrating that M3.

Of course, I still love Vivaldi and will stay with it, I just ditched M3.

WildEnte

@Granite1 said in Goodbye Vivaldi Mail:

“mail to self” is easy to do/easy to forget not to do

Finally I'm not alone in my quest against all things "issues with sent to self emails" - plonk.

But then again, once you know the issue exists, the annoyance is not all that terrible, I always thought it was mostly troublesome for everyone trying out Vivaldi, when I believe sending an email to yourself to test it is normal. That's when it fails miserably.
Maybe I'm not bothered by the issue too much in my daily routine because I don't delete emails (other than spam).

Feeds have been improved in the last version with adding folders for feeds, which was requested a lot.

Vivaldi Mail is not just bolted on, it's a very unique feature in a world where there are plenty of browsers to choose from. It's a pretty good client by now, and I have long stopped using (the still running) Opera M2.

I believe the widgets can again amplify the value of the browser and the mail client simultaneously, see
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/103304/year-end-top-3-wishlist

Granite1

@WildEnte:

Feeds have been improved in the last version with adding folders for feeds, which was requested a lot.

I did not, nor would have, requested that feature. I did use feed folders before I came to Vivaldi, but when I imported all my feeds, incl. folders, into Vivaldi, there were no more folders. I was a bit startled but then thought about it, esp. after reading your blog post about not using mail folders. And yes, it made a lot of sense just to have feeds ordered alphabetically and not in folders.

But, I still do not like the fact at all that Feeds and Mail share a pane, it disturbs the workflow.

I believe the widgets can again amplify the value of the browser

I don't know what you mean by widgets, but I have not found anything special about Vivaldi's mail client. In fact, the only positive pay-off I got is that I learned to use its keyboard shortcuts, which I now discovered can also be used (or similar ones) in Thunderbird to make my workflow there more efficient.

So, to me, M3 only seems to be a unique selling point for the browser, until you get to use it, and in my case I found it to be janky.

I would sincerely love to use M3 as my default client, but for that to happen a sea change would be necessary for the client to be significantly superior to a specialized app like Thunderbird, which has 2-3 (?) decades of fine-tuning under its belt.

I am pessimistic about such a sea change happening in the next 12-18 months.

Dancer18

@Granite1 I may not have really understood what your problems are.

send mail to myself works here. You mean, deleting that mail from the sent-"folder"? That doesn't work here either.
feeds and mail in the same window? That doesn't have to be the case. You can set exactly what you want to see in the mail window.
For example, you can hide the feeds. Then you only have mails in the window and there is an extra button for the feeds that you can use to show them. In another window.

Granite1

@Dancer18 :

send mail to myself works here. Please explain in more detail what is not working for you.

See my topic here. This, BTW, is not just my issue, @WildEnte has filed bug reports about it.

@Dancer18:

feeds and mail in the same window?

I did not say that, I said “VM and Feeds share a pane”.

@Dancer18:

For example, you can hide the feeds. Then you only have mails in the window and there is an extra button for the feeds that you can use to show them. In another window.

I don't want to have to hide Feeds. I have the mail/feeds pane pinned, and it can either shows mail or feeds. I tried to have the mail pane pinned, then a feeds pane pinned but that does not work because it is the same pane, so it is either ... or.

Dancer18

@Granite1 Sorry that I didn't get it at first. Now I understand. If I would use feeds more than at the moment, I also would like to have them seperately to be able to pin both of them.

Granite1

@Dancer18:

If I would use feeds more than at the moment, I also would like to have them seperately to be able to pin both of them.

Thank you. I use both feeds and mail extensively, which is why I was so happy to discover Vivaldi had both of them. Alas, mail did not work for me, and neither did the shared pane.

Since I reverted to Thunderbird for mail, I deleted all my mail accounts in Vivaldi, so I now use that pane for feeds only. That works well.

edwardp

@Granite1 As for the DNS issue you experienced, the Vivaldi software as a whole, including the mail client, uses the DNS setting on chrome://security/settings, either the operating system's default (which may or may not be https/secure) or one of the secure DNS servers offered.

With a brand new profile, the Secure DNS setting is turned on by default and is using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS.

Granite1

@edwardp:

With a brand new profile, the Secure DNS setting is turned on by default and is using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS.

I did not need to create a new profile, I just turned on secure setting and set it to use 9.9.9.9, which is Quad9.

edwardp

@Granite1 said in Goodbye Vivaldi Mail:

@edwardp:

With a brand new profile, the Secure DNS setting is turned on by default and is using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS.

I did not need to create a new profile, I just turned on secure setting and set it to use 9.9.9.9, which is Quad9.

To use Quad9, the setting must be on Add custom DNS service provider and the Quad9 https URL for the service you choose, must be input as shown on this page.

Using the IP address 9.9.9.9 as is, in that field, doesn't work (I've tried it). For Quad9 to be added to the pull-down list, it would have to originate with the Chromium project upstream.

Granite1

@edwardp:

To use Quad9, the setting must be on Add custom DNS service provider and the Quad9 https URL for the service you choose, must be input as shown on this page.

I was aware of that and have had it exactly like that for a couple of months, without any hiccups I might I add.

@edwardp:

Using the IP address 9.9.9.9 as is, in that field, doesn't work (I've tried it).

What do you mean by “as is”? Do you mean without the URL? If so, no problem because I have set the URL.

If that is not what you mean, what makes you say it does not work?

edwardp

@Granite1 said in Goodbye Vivaldi Mail:

@edwardp:

Using the IP address 9.9.9.9 as is, in that field, doesn't work (I've tried it).

What do you mean by “as is”? Do you mean without the URL? If so, no problem because I have set the URL.

If that is not what you mean, what makes you say it does not work?

9.9.9.9 alone, https://9.9.9.9 and https://9.9.9.9/dns-query do not work in that settings field here, using Vivaldi Stable on Linux.

The URL needs to be ->  https://dns.quad9.net/dns-query   for Quad9 to work.

Then, after changing it to the above URL, go to the following URL to test.

https://on.quad9.net

Granite1

@edwardp:

The URL needs to be -> https://dns.quad9.net/dns-query for Quad9 to work.

That is exactly as per the web page you linked to, and which I told you I have had for a couple of months now. And since it works fine on my side I was surprised by your statement it does not work. So, thanks for your clarification.

For whoever reads this thread: Quad9's 9.9.9.9 DNS DOES WORK, provided you have also set the URL correctly.

edwardp

@Granite1 I tested all three of the URL's using only the numerical IP address, before posting my message, none of them worked.

Only the URL using the actual hostname works here.

Granite1

@edwardp:

Then, after changing it to the above URL, go to the following URL to test.

https://on.quad9.net

Granite1

@edwardp:

Only the URL using the actual hostname works here.

You lost me again. What do you mean by this statement? Only this URL works:

https://dns.quad9.net/dns-query as per your earlier reply?

If that's not what you mean, then what?

edwardp

@Granite1 This is what the setting should contain, if Quad9 is to be used:

Granite1

@edwardp:

This is what the setting should contain, if Quad9 is to be used:

I know, you already said twice before. I thought you had something new.