Unsolved What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?

dalinar

here are headers from the latest message that ended up in spam

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Message-Id: <172********.*********@yahoo.com>
From: **** <*****>
To: ****
Subject: Re: **** (does contain some keywords related to money)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:54:34 +0000
In-Reply-To:
 <CYXP**********************************************@************.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References:
 <CYXPR*********************************************@************.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
X-Mailer: Vivaldi Mail
User-Agent: Vivaldi Mail/6.8.3381.53
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0

edwardp

@dalinar Where the subject matter related to money, it's possible that Yahoo's spam filtering could be trained to see that as potential spam, then placed it in the Spam folder.

WildEnte

@edwardp or rather not placed in the folder, just flagged as spam. All messages - spam lists every email that carries the spam flag, regardless of what folder it is in.

dalinar

@edwardp do you mean that yahoo will just place it in the Spam All Messages folder? isn't a vivaldi folder? it definitely doesn't place it in the Yahoo spam folder when you are logged in using their web mail. And it is not just this message, it is all the messages flagged as spam behaving that way... might be a few months ago there were some that also got into the yahoo webmail spam folder but i can't say for sure.. but definitely the last 20+ haven't... they just appear in the Spam All Messages folder

ok I have verified that i do have messages (on another vivaldi profile, using another yahoo account) that are both in the Spam All Messsages folder and the Yahoo webmail spam folder (note: I don't check that webmail for that account often, half the messages were from 2023 there.. the other half i didn't catch the dates of but probably not anything in the last months... so there's a possiblity it is some vivaldi bug in more recent versions than what I was using at the time) but what I say about the email address and profile I was talking about for the entire thread up into this paragraph stands, they don't show up there in the webmail spam folder just all messages vivaldi spam folder.

WildEnte

@dalinar no, the email apparently carries the spam flag. See

@WildEnte said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

All messages - spam lists every email that carries the spam flag, regardless of what folder it is in

dalinar

@WildEnte ah, how can i see the flag? is there a way to get vivaldi to ignore it?

edwardp

@dalinar All Messages is in the Vivaldi Mail client. It duplicates what is in every account's folder (Inbox, Sent, Spam, Trash, etc.).

When Yahoo's/AOL's filtering sees something as spam, or perhaps the message has the characteristics of it, it should go in the account's Spam folder and you should see the message in both this Spam folder and in All Accounts/Spam.

Once a message is deleted from any of the account's folders, the same message is also deleted from the corresponding folder in All Accounts.

dalinar

@edwardp it's not just money, here are more examples of what is in the vivaldi spam folder. these are just because they are recent messages i received. pretty much everything is ending up in there. that's because I was just changing passwords and stuff

but it seems really strange that every single email should be flagged as spam, and also how stupid does the spam filter have to be to mark messages sent from yahoo to a yahoo account as spam, like these ones:

Unexpected sign-in attempt
Password change for your Yahoo account
Two-step verification activated for your account

dalinar

@edwardp I do not know how to access the spam folder for individual accounts in vivaldi. But it definitely doesn't go into the spam folder in yahoo's web mail for the account, even though it shows up in Vivaldi All Messages Spam

WildEnte

@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

I do not know how to access the spam folder for individual accounts in vivaldi

The All Accounts section at the bottom of the panel lists all of your accounts and under the account name you will find the IMAP folders

edwardp

@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

but it seems really strange that every single email should be flagged as spam, and also how stupid does the spam filter have to be to mark messages sent from yahoo to a yahoo account as spam, like these ones:

Unexpected sign-in attempt
Password change for your Yahoo account
Two-step verification activated for your account

If Yahoo marked e-mails showing these subjects as spam, then its spam filter is doing its job. If those e-mails showed they came from a Yahoo account, then the sending address was either spoofed, or is fake and Yahoo detected that.

dalinar

@edwardp they are not spoofed or fake, all those emails are actually from yahoo because they describe what i was doing (I was updating passwords and changing authenticators on the yahoo website). It is normal for yahoo to send such emails when you change things.

dalinar

@WildEnte ah I see.. maybe "Bulk" under individual accounts means "Spam"? well it is always empty anyhow, but at least I think I found the individual spam folders. it being empty would make sense (even though the spam messages show up in all messages spam) because in yahoo web mail the spam folder is empty.

EDIT: ah no wait, some of the "Bulk" folders are not empty.. I will check what is webmail for those accounts.

EDIT2: ok yes, it is like this:

Vivaldi Spam All Messages: has spam messages
Vivaldi Individual Account : Bulk: has spam messages
Yahoo WebMail for Account Spam Folder: empty, messages are in their normal non-spam locations

edwardp

@dalinar If you see a Bulk folder for a Yahoo account (I see them for AOL.), that would be an equivalent to a Spam folder.

edwardp

@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

@edwardp they are not spoofed or fake, all those emails are actually from yahoo because they describe what i was doing (I was updating passwords and changing authenticators on the yahoo website). It is normal for yahoo to send such emails when you change things.

If this is normal, then I don't know why Yahoo seems to be marking them as spam.

dalinar

ok, I realize this has dragged on but I understand now what is happening I guess based on the responses here.

Somehow Yahoo puts spam messages in the IMAP Bulk folder, but NOT the Yahoo webmail Spam folder.

Vivaldi sees there are IMAP Bulk folder messages so shows these in All Messages Spam and does not show them in inbox / sent because of that.

My question is... in this situation, where it is not in the yahoo web mail spam folder... shows as normal sent message in yahoo web mail... but does not show as sent in vivaldi (instead shows as bulk / all messages spam)... does it mean the message has still been sent?

my guess is yes

yojimbo274064400

@dalinar

Are both the sending and receiving email accounts setup in Vivaldi? If a received message is marked as junk then the sent message is also marked as junk; this latter behaviour is undesirable. This may explain why messages are no longer in sent folder.

Is this undesirable behaviour a known issue; if not then can others confirm so I can raise bug report?

dalinar

@yojimbo274064400 I don't know what you mean by sending and receiving accounts.

I have many of these accounts, all yahoo.. that have this problem.. they are spread out over various Profiles. But that is not really important other than the fact that this behaviour is not isolated to one account or profile.

but how accounts are set up are as follows:

yahoo email account which I can log into using yahoo web mail
it is accessed from Vivaldi Mail via IMAP (but from what I remember I think vivaldi just detects all that stuff and configures it without having to manually type in imap servers because it understands it is a yahoo account)
currently (I mean all my recent emails) anything where a message that I compose in Vivaldi for yahoo/imap and send out via Vivaldi, ends up in All Messages | Spam and Individual Account | Bulk, but not in spam folder of Yahoo web mail.
incoming messages to the yahoo account (e.g. like even those sent by yahoo itself about password changes, login from different locations, etc.) also exhibit this behaviour.

yojimbo274064400

@dalinar said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

@yojimbo274064400 I don't know what you mean by sending and receiving accounts.
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The point I tried to make is that if two accounts are setup under the same Vivaldi profile and one sends a message to the other where it is marked as spam then the sent message is also marked as spam

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3. currently (I mean all my recent emails) anything where a message that I compose in Vivaldi for yahoo/imap and send out via Vivaldi, ends up in All Messages | Spam and Individual Account | Bulk, but not in spam folder of Yahoo web mail.
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This is perplexing and all I can suggest is:

in Vivaldi right click on folder and select Advanced > Rerun Filter for Folder
in Yahoo webmail mark message appearing in Inbox but in Vivaldi's spam folder as spam and then as not spam to see if issue persist

WildEnte

@yojimbo274064400 said in What is the BEST 3rd party spam service to use with Vivaldi that FULFILLS this ONE requirement?:

if two accounts are setup under the same Vivaldi profile and one sends a message to the other where it is marked as spam then the sent message is is also marked as spam

That's VB-89087
[Mail] Sent to self emails: Sent and Received emails should not sync Unread state, Labels, Flags despite deduplication

Confirmed and not assigned since I filed it in May 2022