Vivaldi for iOS
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Jon von Tetzchner, CEO of Vivaldi Technologies, returns to TechCentral for a fascinating discussion on the world of Web browsers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhkkFcEwCBo&feature=emb_title
He also talks about Vivaldi iOS in this video.
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@luetage said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
@altcode Vivaldi's UI on the desktop is based on web technologies (html, js, css), this cannot be moved to mobile afaik. iOS apps are programmed in swift and android apps in java.
iOS apps can be programmed also in C/C++ (they are compiled by Xcode natively or by another C/C++ compilers, which might be more troublesome but not impossible), C#/Java (in virtual machine), JavaScript (it’s common nowadays) and any other interpreted language. As far as I know blink is written in C/C++, so Vivaldi is written in it too and large part of its code could be reused. Only the UI code should be rewritten and the code which interacts with the blink engine (and replaced with code interacting with WebKit). Moreover Blink is a fork of WebKit so large parts of it should have similar structure and some parts could be identical. So porting Vivaldi from Blink to WebKit could be simpler than it looks like. However I’m not acquainted with the code of any of these browser engines so I can’t say it for sure.
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@alexander-gorbovets said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
However I’m not acquainted with the code of any of these browser engines so I can’t say it for sure.
Let's just go with what Jon said then.
Apple does not allow us to use the same code on iOS, so it requires a lot more work to deliver on that platform. We do hope, however, to provide an iOS version sometime in the future. Ideally that would be through Apple allowing us to reuse our code, but we aim to make it happen anyways.
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Perhaps this has already been mentioned; But in these turbulent times, Apple also sells fewer iPhones. It would also be to their own advantage if they listen to their customers a bit more; For example Chrome browsers -as Vivaldi- allow in the iOS appstore.
I have a love / hate relationship with Apple myself; Apple is very dominant; For example, in the Safari app store, it blocks most (good) ad blockers.
But the macos interface is really sublime. And just like that for iOS; See for example this (Dutch) bookmark overview on the iphone below. Maybe interesting inspiration for the iOS Vivaldi browser? -
Not having chromium on iOS stopped no one else, so it's kind of a moot point IMO. One of the major reasons why people pick a browser is for sync capabilities between different platforms which is why you have Chrome, Edge, and Brave on all platforms (though brave is taking forever for full sync).
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@tgienger said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
Not having chromium on iOS stopped no one else, so it's kind of a moot point IMO.
And it is not stopping Vivaldi either, that's not what this thread or the company has said. The point that had been made, time and again, is that the technical details of implementing a browser on iOS vs Android means that it is more efficient to adapt the code to Android than iOS; so it makes sense to and is a more efficient use of Vivaldi's (very) limited resources to do Android first.
Jon, and the commentators here, have not said that an iOS version will not be done, just that it is more complicated and more work than doing the Android version. This point is unaffected by Chrome, Edge and Brave, or anyone else having released an iOS broswer.
We should always take care when trying to compare the work of those mentioned browsers to Vivaldi. Microsoft and Google are enormous MNCs (multinational corporations) with relatively boundless resources available for the development of their browsers. Even Brave is orders of magnitude larger when comparing the resources they have for development -- more than triple the workforce with significant outside funding. Vivaldi is funded by the pockets of its founder, and does not have to try to recognize any ROI for various angel or other investment firms. It's a generous gift, but it is built using far fewer resources than the browsers to which it is so often compared.
Keeping this in mind, one should be able to better understand the methods of operation Vivaldi employs, as well as more accurately manage one's expectations of when and what will be released to the public. Vivaldi will be releasing an iOS version, but I would not expect to get my hands on it for a couple years, similar to the patience we needed to exercise while waiting for the Android version. That patience was rewarded.
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First off, very interesting thread. It can be rare to see civilized discussion in an online forum these days.
Anyway, I have started using Vivaldi as of today and it's really cool! As an iPhone user, lack of an iOS app is unfortunate but I believe I have found a workaround to syncing at least some content between devices.
Before starting to use Vivaldi, I had recently made a Pocket account so I could create "bookmarks" with tags - on a side note, if someone could point to another extension, program, or browser that does this, I would appreciate it. While trying to find a workaround to syncing content from Vivaldi to iOS, it hit me - I could add to Pocket any tabs/links/etc. that I want to open up in an iOS browser, which would be Firefox in my case. Then, I simply open Firefox on my phone, create a new tab, and open whatever tabs/links/etc. that I want to "sync" between my devices. To make this workaround more seamless, I set Firefox on iOS to load the Pocket website by default when creating a new tab.
I realize this is far from an ideal solution and may not work for everyone and may not even work for me as I have just started to test out the practicality of this workaround. I also haven't fully explored the privacy implications of using Pocket for this purpose (this, along with other reasons, is why I'm moving away from Google in the first place). Of course, feel free to point out any potential issues with this workaround.
My hope is that this workaround could be of use to others grappling with this issue, especially if they are already using Pocket! :smiling_face_with_open_mouth:
NOTE to more experienced members of this forum/community: please let me know if I should move this to another thread or start a new one with the above workaround.
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Welcome to the forum, nice first post. That's a pretty good workflow you've created. Everyone works differently, so what matters is that it is efficient for you.
In the years I spent waiting for a mobile version of Vivaldi I too was using Firefox. I mostly cared about getting bookmarks created on my phone into my desktop instance of Vivaldi. So I used Firefox's native sync capability, then on the desktop I would export my bookmarks from Firefox, import that into Vivaldi, and run a deduplication process.
I ended up running into a lot of issues with Firefox's sync function, and couldn't keep a copy of my entire bookmark collection synced in it. So I would just delete all bookmarks after exporting. Even then I eventually got into a state with some undeletable bookmarks, and crap like that.
So it was far from an ideal workflow. I had an html file that was an export of my bookmarks from Vivaldi that I uploaded to a web server and could access that if I really needed to, but I would also just message myself with links from my desktop if I just wanted to send like 100 or less links (in the window panel I would right-click / copy address & paste that into my message).
I wouldn't really recommend that workflow for many. It served its purpose for a time, but perhaps the greatest thing it did was increase my appreciation for the stability of Vivaldi when it did become available on Android. I have an enormous bookmarks library, which has challenged every mobile browser & sync service I've tried. Vivaldi, despite being the least mature of all the browsers, has been the most capable & has presented the least issues. It was a long wait, but my patience was rewarded with a great browser.
Edit: the one part of that workflow I would recommend, as I still use it frequently, is sending myself messages with a bunch of links. You need to use a tool that works on both the desktop & mobile device -- Signal supports all the major platforms.
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Thanks for the welcome! It's been a couple weeks of using Vivaldi and so far, so good. Though I have to say it's not that different from using say, Chrome, which makes sense since Vivaldi is based on Chromium. This is a good thing since it should make it easier for people like me to adopt Vivaldi. Of course, there are tons of features like screen capture, the ability to move tabs, split-screen tabs, and web panels, that put Vivaldi in a different class.
Anyway, back to the iOS "issue". It didn't even occur to me to send links to myself - I am often accused of over analyzing/complicating things, and rightly so. I will try it out, especially since you suggested using Signal, something else that has piqued my interest since I decided to move away from Google (and Facebook for that matter) as much as possible. It's also good to know that Vivaldi's bookmarks tool is robust, as I've already imported all my bookmarks from Chrome to Vivaldi and will be using Vivaldi as my primary bookmark storage location moving forward.
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@armmat eh, for the most part, people who say we overanalyze things are just less rigorous thinkers. There are important exceptions, of course, like matters of the heart, but technical matters rarely can be overanalyzed, in my opinion.
Signal is great, multiplatform -- meaning iOS, Android, Windows, Linux & mac. To send stuff between your phone install & you computer there is a conversation labeled "Note to Self" which I find extremely useful. I'll also use it for drafting messages that I don't want to send prematurely to someone else, or save a draft to send later.
Vivaldi is certainly robust when it comes to managing bookmarks, its one area where Vivaldi is superior to all other browsers in my opinion. I've got over a hundred thousand of them, so it obviously scales. On the desktop I recommend using the Bookmark Manager (which is in a tab) and the Bookmark Panel for doing organization & other maintenance. But I'll leave it at that so as to not derail this thread too much. If you have bookmark questions start up a new thread and I'm sure you'll get help, feel free to tag me in it if you want to get my attention.
Happy Surfing
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I've been following this topic for a while as seamless syncing is one of the things I consider a needed function, so not having an iOS Vivaldi port is basically a deal breaker in me using the desktop browser.
I noticed a lot of comments regarding the UI needing to be redrawn in iOS - because it's rendered in html/css/js on other platforms. I don't think this is a correct statement. Most Chromium based iOS ports completely recycle the UI components used on Android. If you look at the new MS Edge, Brave they all use HTML/CSS based UI's on iOS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that there is no additional development work needed to make the iOS port, but the idea that a UI has to be rebuilt from scratch and written in Swift is not correct.
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I know, I can hear the groans already but I have to ask. When, oh when will there be an iOS version?
I have been using Vivaldi for its specific features for years now and have always yearned for the ability to have the Vivaldi browser on my portable devices as well. If I could have the continuity of the same browser on all my devices I would definitely switch to Vivaldi only. Because I cant I only use Vivaldi sporadically on my Mac's. I doubt I am alone in this so it was with some disappointment that I saw an Android version released recently. I know it is difficult to fulfil Apple's crazy requirements but if Chrome can get away with it anyone can. Please let me know if it's at least on the drawing board.
modedit changed title related to content
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@Annerod "On the drawing board" is a broad term. I've no word whether a dev has mapped out a path to getting it done, but I know a fair deal of spitballing on it has occurred. But it's nearly the same magnitude of project as building the original version of Vivaldi for desktop. Essentially none of the work that has already been done can be re-purposed to work on iOS. So the answer to your question is, no one really knows.
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@Annerod said in New old Question:
I know, I can hear the groans already but I have to ask.
You really don't need to ask again. All you need to do is search the forum:
Never say “Never,” but IMO we won't ever see an iOS version. Vivaldi is too small, and its rate of growth is slow. Five years on we're still waiting for the built-in email client, which has been In Progress since the first technical preview. Vivaldi for iOS is not even on the starting blocks yet.
This interview with JĂłn is quite recent
Maybe buy an Android phone? That would surely be much less frustrating than waiting five years or longer in the hope for something that might not happen at all.
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Every time I complain about something concerning one of my phones, or every time my daughter wants me to do something that's only available on iOS, she says I should buy an iPhone. But due to their lack of ability to install Vivaldi, I would not consider an iOS device - that, and the fact that they are unjustifiably expensive.
I can do whatever I want with my Android devices, and my daughters can only do what Apple lets them do.
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Read this post and watch the interview with Vivaldi boss Jon von Tetzchner...he also talks about an iOS version in this video:
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/46291/interview-with-jon-von-tetzchner
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@Ayespy Thanks for your insight -- I understand what you're saying... but it begs the question...?:
How is Google able to have Chrome on the iOS store? Certainly they didn't build their browser anew with an Apple engine?
Its been on the wish-list for awhile -- and STILL a very real desire.
Make an iOS version and Vivaldi could be my default cross-platform browser (I loathe Android OS!) -
@ioz said in Question about iOS before switching.:
Certainly they didn't build their browser anew with an Apple engine?
They absolutely did. But then, they have hundreds of developers and billions of dollars, so it was that not all that big of a deal for them.
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Late to the game here. I was just “browsing” around when I found a link to Vivaldi. So, curious sort that I am, I checked it out and quickly found that for Vivaldi “across all platforms” does NOT include iOS. I’m wondering why not? I read through most of this thread until it started getting redundant, so please forgive me if I missed the “real” answer. One thing that came to my mind is that Vivaldi supposedly was built on an engine based on or similar to Opera. Opera has iOS. Anyway, I cannot use any desktop browser that does not sync to iOS. For me, that still remains Safari that fits all of my needs.
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@NCSilverBear Opera is 20 years older than Vivaldi, and has ten times the development staff. It, too, struggled to get an iOS version in the early days. Vivaldi team are still considering the best approach to the problem - whether to build from the ground up in WebKit (the long way, but the best calculated to arrive at a real "Vivaldi" product) or to, perhaps, merely re-brand/re-skin what would essentially still be Safari or Chrome, and lose the flexibility/essence of Vivaldi. Either way, it requires time and development staff. Brave did it, but essentially all they did was re-brand Chrome for iOS.