Vivaldi for iOS
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@azenix said in Vivaldi for IOS/Android.:
you can't make a app with the features to the degree they want
You can't make a browser for IOS period, unless you build it on Apple's version of WebKit - which would mean starting over altogether. The Android version has been started. But never say never. It only took Opera something like 9 years to build a browser that Apple would accept into the Apple Store.
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@ayespy Wouldn't you say that's a rather large exaggeration? The App Store was launched in July 2008 and Opera had a browser in it by April 2010.
I understand that the Vivaldi team does not want to make a browser (read: WebKit skin) for iOS due to Apple's restrictions. However, I am still keeping my fingers crossed for something for those of us with iPhone's. Even if it is a companion sync app that allows us to get see our Bookmarks and open tabs.
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@shrinra To my knowledge (and I could be mis-remembering) Opera was working on an Apple-ready browser from 2001. The introduction of Apple Store and its restrictions was a bottleneck.
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@ayespy The iPhone/iOS wasn't unveiled until 2007 and third-party apps were not possible until the introduction of the App Store a year later in 2008. The only browser that they could have been working on in 2001 was a version for the then new Mac OS X, but it is a much more open platform and they've never had trouble or faced restrictions in supporting it. You could even get Opera on the really old Classic Mac OS from the 90s. I must admit to being rather confused
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@shrinra It's been a long time, and I was never an Apple user (at least not since the Apple 2C we used for our business early on and the Mac desktop I used at work (some) from about '86 to "88). I remember discussions of an Opera browser for iPhone in 2007, but I don't recall there being a Apple version when I first adopted the browser in 1999 - though I do recall a big Mac compatibility kerfuffle in about 2003 or so, but maybe that was just because of the introduction of the Presto engine.
Ennyway, I know they already had a big team (much bigger than Vivaldi does now) and spent years getting an app into the Apple Store. I would actually be surprised if Vivaldi doesn't have an iOS version in some years - but not yet.
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@Ayespy I don't understand how the apple restrictions work, I am no developer, but from my understanding webkit is like a engine, so you can't use your own engine, or port another one. Sure this significantly can limit you, but you still can control UI. Chrome for IOS is still better than safari. All we need is a simple browser with SYNC. You could even have vivaldi set up to sync with chrome or something.
Later on you guys could add all the other stuff that Chrome and Firefox for IOS have added.
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Reading this thread is a little disheartening. I love Vivaldi but I have an iPhone and would really like an app where I could use the calendar. I was thinking of getting a new phone anyway, so I'm probably going to get an Android.
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That whole topic was about how there turns out to be a mobile browser for Android and Linux phones (is that even a thing?), but I think a lot of people (including me) would like an iOS version as well. iPhones own a big part of the smartphone market share, so publishing Vivaldi to the App Store would probably increase Vivaldi's popularity.
idk, just an idea... -
@alternative The iPhone market share is dropping and it's likely it will fall to mac levels in the long run (~8%). But that would be no reason to ignore it. The problem is that iOS is a locked down operating system which only allows its own browser to run on it. All third party browsers have to use the Safari engine and are therefore only clones. Vivaldi is a chromium browser…
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@luetage I keep seeing similar points like this being made as to why Vivaldi for iOS is a much longer way off from happening.
I do not know if this could be the case, but couldn't the Vivaldi team build off the chromium version for iOS to make a version of Vivaldi run on iOS? I mean, as you said, Vivaldi is already chromium based.
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@altcode There is no chromium browser for iOS – it's webkit with some user interface wrapper slapped on top of it. The next big problem is that Apple provides APIs to enable developers to do this, but they are lazy with releasing them, therefore Safari always maintains an "unfair" advantage on iOS. It just isn't a healthy environment to release a browser and Apple doesn't really want it in the first place.
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@luetage I don't get what you mean there. Here is the code that is provided by the chromium project to build Chromium for iOS.
WebKit on the other hand is a browser engine, just like Blink, and as far as I've understood, the chromium version of iOS simply has to use WebKit instead of Blink because Apple doesn't allow any other browser engine in iOS.
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@altcode Yeah, but what do you think Vivaldi is using from the chromium project to make the Vivaldi browser we are enjoying? Blink. The UI is Vivaldi's doing. It's confusing because they call it all chromium, but there is a not so subtle difference here.
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Anyway, of course Vivaldi can make an iOS browser. It's possible and it's certain they have already looked into it. No idea if they will do it, but it's far in the future. I fear it's likely you will switch your smartphone 2 or 3 times before this has any chance of happening. I hope Android is happening before 2020…
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@luetage said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
It's confusing because they call it all chromium, but there is a not so subtle difference here.
So whenever the Vivaldi team is refer to the browser being chromium-based, they are mostly referring to Blink itself?
The UI is Vivaldi's doing.
Are you saying that Vivaldi's UI is only possible because the chromium base of the browser utilizes blink, so porting to iOS would be difficult because even if they used the iOS version of chromium as a base, it does not utilize blink?
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@altcode Vivaldi's UI on the desktop is based on web technologies (html, js, css), this cannot be moved to mobile afaik. iOS apps are programmed in swift and android apps in java.
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@altcode large parts of browser infrastructure (session context, local storage, site features, cache, keyboard/mouse input) are reused as well.
Sometimes causing problems with special user input (gestures/shortcuts) and limits to features (private tab). -
I think the answer is that it will not happen.
@Ayespy said in Vivaldi for IOS/Android.:
You can't make a browser for IOS period, unless you build it on Apple's version of WebKit - which would mean starting over altogether. The Android version has been started. But never say never. It only took Opera something like 9 years to build a browser that Apple would accept into the Apple Store.
If someone from the Vivaldi Team thinks it could happen one day, no doubt they will remove the "Will not do" tag, but I would not like anyone to have their hopes raised.
Never say "never," but I think for now, one should assume that it will never happen.
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@Ayespy said in Vivaldi for IOS/Android.:
It only took Opera something like 9 years to build a browser that Apple would accept into the Apple Store.
A few things that I find wrong with that statement:
- The iPhone/iOS was not unveiled until 2007.
- The iOS app store was not launched until 2008, so third party apps were not possible before hand.
- Opera released a browser for iOS in 2010, so in truth, it only took Opera 2 years to build and release a browser for iOS once they were able to.
@pesala said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
If someone from the Vivaldi Team thinks it could happen one day, no doubt they will remove the "Will not do" tag, but I would not like anyone to have their hopes raised.
Never say "never," but I think for now, one should assume that it will never happen.They have said countless times on Twitter that iOS is not a priority, it is a long-term project, and that it is more tricky. Notice how they've never that it will never happen.
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@altcode said in Mobile Vivaldi for iOS:
Opera released a browser for iOS in 2010, so in truth, it only took Opera 2 years to build and release a browser for iOS once they were able to.
You are assuming that they did not even start building it until the iOS app store opened. That is like saying they did not start working on Vivaldi Mobile until they opened this feature request category for Mobile.
On Wikipedia it says:
A project to port Opera to mobile device platforms was started in 1998. Opera 4.0, released in 2000, included a new cross-platform core that facilitated creation of editions of Opera for multiple operating systems and platforms.
I removed the tag in the light of the comments on Twitter.