Do we need a POP3 capable email client?
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I have a standalone e-mail client I will likely never switch from BUT if I were to use Vivaldi's e-mail I would want POP3 because as far as I know only if provides 100% certainty of never losing mail. I could be wrong.
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Since most mailers have more than enough space for a lot of mails, POP3 isn't really necessary in todays usage.
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I have a standalone e-mail client I will likely never switch from BUT if I were to use Vivaldi's e-mail I would want POP3 because as far as I know only if provides 100% certainty of never losing mail. I could be wrong.
So long as your hardware holds up, you're basically right. Now if someone wrote/invented a MAPI email client with full local data security as mentioned above, that would be a wonderful thing. It would be the first real stride forward in email in literally decades.
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The question is whether I can get my existing accounts working with IMAP instead of POP.
One is a Gmail account, another is with WebPlus.net. The only IMAP client at the moment is vivaldi.net, which I use only for bug reports. My NTL account is ancient, and that also uses a Gmail server AFAIK, but although I can still send and receive messages I have problems logging in to the web mail server.
I think a lot of users may face problems to transfer accounts to work with the Vivaldi email client.
I shall probably continue to use Opera 12.17 anyway, even if Vivaldi has an email client. For a year or so I could use it only for vivaldi.net mail while I wait for other essential (for me) features like more customisation of shortcuts, menus, and toolbars
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The question is whether I can get my existing accounts working with IMAP instead of POP.
The mileage may vary depending on the country, but practically all of my email providers can act as email client to a different email provider either as POP3 or IMAP.
Personally I don't use such feature but I could, if I was forced to.
Here we had also a small utility that got the email from the webmail and served it as a pop3/imap4 for the email clients, when Libero (a major service provider here) made the access via pop3/imap4 a premium feature.
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You should realize that thePOP3 features means a lot of work more for the developers.
The point of this poll (which is originated by a question from Jon in person) was (more or less)
Is worth to delay the email client release or to dedicate additional human resources to it because the POP3 feature?
Understanding the pattern usage will help to reply to that question.
That's all.
Then perhaps the question has been poorly worded. It suggests that there are two absolute options on the table, POP3 support vs No POP3 support.
Plus the resulting discussion seems to ignore valid minority use cases in favor of a debate on whether or not people think other people/servers should or should not use POP3.And with all respect, Tab Hibernation has been in several "stable" builds with Linux support promised for what's going on a half a year now. You'll excuse me if I'm reluctant of more delays because someone else feels my requirements are less important than their own.
I'm also quite aware of the fact that development takes time and I find it disconcerting if not insulting that the same spiel is regurgitated every time somebody raises a simple concern regarding dev/roadmap/features.
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I do not use POP3 at all, it seems kinda "slow" to me etc. but I can see that some needs to have emails offline as well.
But do not delay M3, release it without POP3. You can always work on it later (after M3 IMAP release)
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I'm just wondering what is the point to use POP3 nowdays when most of email servers are IMAP capable and IMAP has a way more features to offer…
I think storage limits are just a matter of proper local DB and sync implementation
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The question is whether I can get my existing accounts working with IMAP instead of POP.
One is a Gmail account, another is with WebPlus.net. The only IMAP client at the moment is vivaldi.net, which I use only for bug reports. My NTL account is ancient, and that also uses a Gmail server AFAIK, but although I can still send and receive messages I have problems logging in to the web mail server.
I think a lot of users may face problems to transfer accounts to work with the Vivaldi email client.
I shall probably continue to use Opera 12.17 anyway, even if Vivaldi has an email client. For a year or so I could use it only for vivaldi.net mail while I wait for other essential (for me) features like more customisation of shortcuts, menus, and toolbars
Were you to switch to an imap-only client, you would want to import mail only, not settings. If you switch a client that HAS been using POP3 over to IMAP on the same account, you can be plagued with duplicate emails that will not delete no matter what you do. However, GMail defaults to IMAP when you allow a client to use automated setup, and WebPlus.net has IMAP access as well. I don't know whether most automated setup routines would recognize its default settings, tho, or whether it would need to be set by hand.
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Then perhaps the question has been poorly worded. It suggests that there are two absolute options on the table, POP3 support vs No POP3 support.
Well. That is.
Should I add 33% support and 75% support? :lol:
The options are about your usage not about the Vivaldi feature.
It's just a consultive poll, not a "legislative referendum" , to help the developers to understand the user habits and how many pop3 only servers are out there, then they will decide taking this poll as a source for their decision, hence I can't see what's missing on the initial question.
You need the pop3 or not
You're used to it and you prefer it or not.
They are clear questions, I believe.
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In that light, it should be known that Earthlink is still a major internet provider in the United States, and that, when setting up email with one of their accounts, it defaults to POP3 and SMTPAuth. This gives some mail clients fits, because they mis-handle the outgoing mail part of it.
Earthlink DOES have MAPI access, but the settings for it are devilishly hard to find and have to be set up by hand. My wife, for instance, could not do it in a million years. I can figure it out.
That may help to shed some light on whether users would welcome POP3 protocol handling in the M3 client.
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In that light, it should be known that Earthlink is still a major internet provider in the United States, and that, when setting up email with one of their accounts, it defaults to POP3 and SMTPAuth. This gives some mail clients fits, because they mis-handle the outgoing mail part of it.
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And more data: PeoplePC is a popular budget dialup internet provider in the United States, owned by Earthlink. Until late 2014, it was POP3 only, and then it began a gradual rollout of IMAP to some of its customers. When setting up PeoplePC email in an email client, it still defaults to POP3. You can find MAPI settings on line if you are one of the customers to whom MAPI is now provided, but it's never offered. You have to look for it. In the meantime, nearly all remaining desktop mail client customers using PeoplePC are still on POP3. The ones not using a desktop client just log in to their PeoplePC home page and use web mail from there.
Obviously, VERY FEW PeoplePC customers are going to be Vivaldi target customers. But that's one company that's still in the POP3 era.
Plus further data: https://www.att.com/support_static_files/KB/KB5892.html
POP is fading, but it ain't dead yet.
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I don't know if I absolutely need it. But I do use it with my old Hotmail account that I use for signing up for junk. I've tried switching over to my Vivaldi email account with IMAP, but despite telling friends multiple times, many people seem to refuse to update their address books and I still get occasional emails that I care about on that old hotmail account.
I know Microsoft added support for IMAP on Outlook/Hotmail accounts a while back. I tried it out, but it was flaky at best when I tried to use M2.
All my other email accounts, I don't mind using IMAP.
As a more principled stance, I don't really like the idea of not including POP3 support with the client. It seems to go against the philosophy of 'when in doubt, make it an option'.
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In that light, it should be known that Earthlink is still a major internet provider in the United States, and that, when setting up email with one of their accounts, it defaults to POP3 and SMTPAuth. This gives some mail clients fits, because they mis-handle the outgoing mail part of it.
AHA! They've entered the 21st century! Still, their default mail storage capacity is 1GB (well up from 100MB it used to be) which would mean that my wife, for instance, who receives over 600 emails a day usually, and has them removed from server as she downloads them, would still have to stick to POP3. Like me, she has to use email as a filing system for the nonprofit she volunteers for. Her GMail account has like a quarter million emails in it since I set it up for her in 2009.
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To all of you, you know you can configure IMAP to delete the mails from the server when downloaded, right ? So you are not in the obligation to use POP3 for this use case.
Anyway, I tend to agree to this :
As a more principled stance, I don't really like the idea of not including POP3 support with the client. It seems to go against the philosophy of 'when in doubt, make it an option'.
Opera wasn't a web browser, it was an Internet Browser. And I hope Vivaldi will be the same.
But having a rolling release (IMAP first, and then, a bit later POP3) seems the right way to do it. -
To all of you, you know you can configure IMAP to delete the mails from the server when downloaded, right ? So you are not in the obligation to use POP3 for this use case.
Anyway, I tend to agree to this :
As a more principled stance, I don't really like the idea of not including POP3 support with the client. It seems to go against the philosophy of 'when in doubt, make it an option'.
Opera wasn't a web browser, it was an Internet Browser. And I hope Vivaldi will be the same.
But having a rolling release (IMAP first, and then, a bit later POP3) seems the right way to do it.I think in most cases that setting IMAP to "delete from server" actually only hides it in trash. a) I don't think this clears your storage quota and b) it rather defeats the purpose of IMAP, which is to allow multiple devices to share the same data view.
I'm pretty sure that actually deleting the mail from server if you are truly using IMAP means that the mail will be deleted from every device that syncs with the server. That is the way IMAP works.
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I think in most cases that setting IMAP to "delete from server" actually only hides it in trash. a) I don't think this clears your storage quota and b) it rather defeats the purpose of IMAP, which is to allow multiple devices to share the same data view.
In Opera Mail case "Delete" moves the emails to the trash can (which is an IMAP folder as well), which is the correct behavior.
But you have the function "delete permanently" (Shift+Del) which, well… deletes the email permanently.
And you have also the option to empty the trash can.
So the quota management is not a problem at all.
MS programs were used to manage poorly the IMAP folders (probably on purpose) and with them really deleting the IMAP messages is counter-intuitive to say the best, but that is not a problem for any decent email client (starting from M2/Opera Mail, ending to many mobile clients like K@-mail or K9)
Also many mobile clients has the option to delete the emails only locally or also from the server. The mileage may vary depending on the client taken in account.
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All I'm saying is, if you take it off the server, your other IMAP clients can't get it. AND, if you take it off server, it will no longer appear in your local IMAP client, either. If you're on IMAP, you can't have it both ways. You can't be synced with the server, yet have emails that it does not have.
If you want to take emails off the server and KEEP them, you must be on POP3.
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I don't think a web browser should have a mail client shoe-horned into it.