Extremely slow performance since upgrade
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@Zalex108 said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
The result on a Clean Profile usually determines where is the problem, despite there are 2 more things:
HW/A is ative by default, as mentioned by Mib2Berlin
Active Flags affect that Profile except you did it from a Modied ShortCut@RasheedHolland did you check these two things?
Also try uninstalling Spyshelter and reboot your computer. This is to see if not all of a sudden Spyshelter started to play a role; a security's program driver is working at the level where it could interfere with memory.
Those are important bases to have covered when dealing with performance issues.
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@EricJH said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
@Zalex108 said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
The result on a Clean Profile usually determines where is the problem, despite there are 2 more things:
HW/A is ative by default, as mentioned by Mib2Berlin
Active Flags affect that Profile except you did it from a Modied ShortCut@RasheedHolland did you check these two things?
Also try uninstalling Spyshelter and reboot your computer. This is to see if not all of a sudden Spyshelter started to play a role; a security's program driver is working at the level where it could interfere with memory.
Those are important bases to have covered when dealing with performance issues.
Yes, these things aren't the problem, I already checked. And trust me, this isn't caused by SpyShelter, it doesn't work as an AV.
This problem with hanging in memory is clearly related to performance issues in Vivaldi, after it has been in memory for hours. But I already have a plan, I'm going to try Process Monitor, and see what happens when I close Vivaldi. It will show file system, registry and process/thread activity.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon
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@RasheedHolland said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
I haven't been following the topic so I must have missed you already tested them, however,Spyshelter as program in the OS
this isn't caused by SpyShelter, it doesn't work as an AV.
I am not familiar with Spyshelter so I made a quick visit to its website. I see it brings a Firewall and HIPS among other things. I am a long term user of Comodo Firewall (Firewall and HIPS) since v3 alpha and successor Comodo Internet Security (Firewall, Sandbox, HIPS and AV). Like CIS Spyshelter focuses on proactive security over detection and I see both as kindred spirits.
I assume Spyshelter runs its shields in kernel mode like CIS does. Everything that runs in kernel mode has the capability to interfere with performance of both OS and applications. That is true for CIS, Spyshelter, any security application, actually any application that has a driver running in kernel mode.
Further analysis
You start with stating "Yes, these things aren't the problem, I already checked." and I would be willing to believe you had you not immediately after that thrown in an authority argument when you say "And trust me... " immunizing Spyshelter because it supposedly is a special category program.Well that has me suspicious because this smells it could be a deflection and has me wonder if you actually did test by temporarily uninstalling Spyshelter.
That means I have two basic questions for you to answer:
- Can you confirm you did temporarily uninstall Spyshelter (and reboot the PC)?
- Do you agree that any program that runs driver(s) in kernel mode has the capability to influence performance of OS and applications?
Style of writing - tiring and other aspects
I was not prepared to check your previous posts to see if you had actually did what you said you did.That is because your style of writing is over the top and tiring. On every occasion you are pedantically showing off how knowledgeable and superior you are. People will typically get tired and weary of your posts fairly quickly regardless whether you might also bring some merit to the table.
In the end opinions are like our Johnsons. We all have one and mine is of course biggest but we keep it in our pants. My advice therefor is to stay on topic and stop flaunting your Johnson on each and every occasion.
Back on topic
I am interested to see your finding with Process Monitor. -
Some notes:
Anything with HIPS capability is built to inspect processes before allowing them to run. It does this in the background, and the function often cannot be turned off, even if one "disables" it. That's why it is recommended that to test firewall/HIPS/antispyware function for process interference, one uninstall it completely to check how things run in its absence. If there is no change or if it is ruled out, it can then be reinstalled. I frequently read "It can't be my security software because nothing has changed with my security software, but it was only Vivaldi that updated, and so it's Vivaldi that's doing it."
This fails to take a couple of things into account: Security software may not interfere with one version of some software, or at least not interfere to the degree that the user notices it, but when that software updates, the security software no longer recognizes the new version as "known" or "safe" and begins to stick its fingers in obtrusively, either totally blocking or severely slowing software that it was OK with yesterday. Further, many kinds of security software silently update - some as often as daily. This can change their recognition patterns so that they begin to interfere with software they were OK with before.
When trying to rule out factors that affect performance, security software is at least as likely a culprit as driver software and device firmware, sometimes even moreso. Extensions likewise inject processes, some of which never shut down. For this reason I recommend testing with a fully clean profile that has no extensions in it of any kind at all. I have even had this occur: User says performance is godawful, buggy or crashy. I recommend they remove all extensions and everything clears up. Then, unaccountably. They reinstall the same extensions and the problem does not recur.
Environmental variables are some of the hardest things to account for. The only thing we know going in is, if a couple million systems don't do this, but the user's system is doing it, you have to ask what about the user's system distinguishes it from those where there is no trouble.
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@EricJH said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
That means I have two basic questions for you to answer:
- Can you confirm you did temporarily uninstall Spyshelter (and reboot the PC)?
- Do you agree that any program that runs driver(s) in kernel mode has the capability to influence performance of OS and applications?
1 No
2 Yes, but I have been using HIPS for 20 years, and I know when they might cause problems and when not. I have been using Vivaldi since version 2 with the exact same versions of SpyShelter (SS), on both Win 8.1 and Win 10 and I know for a fact that SS won't slow down performance of apps, and will not cause apps to hang in memory. Especially not if you gave those apps the right permissions.That is because your style of writing is over the top and tiring. On every occasion you are pedantically showing off how knowledgeable and superior you are. People will typically get tired and weary of your posts fairly quickly regardless whether you might also bring some merit to the table.
I'm sorry, but now you're doing the exact same as what you accuse me of. This whole post of yours is to show off your knowledge of HIPS and how they can interfere with apps, it's very tiring especially because I'm not a rookie when it comes to HIPS software. And I didn't have these problems with Vivaldi 6.1, with the exact same configuration and extensions. Of course those extensions may have updated themselves in the mean time, so they can still play a role. But this is the 10th time or so I had to repeat this, now that's tiring!
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@Ayespy said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
When trying to rule out factors that affect performance, security software is at least as likely a culprit as driver software and device firmware, sometimes even moreso. Extensions likewise inject processes, some of which never shut down. For this reason I recommend testing with a fully clean profile that has no extensions in it of any kind at all. I have even had this occur: User says performance is godawful, buggy or crashy. I recommend they remove all extensions and everything clears up. Then, unaccountably. They reinstall the same extensions and the problem does not recur.
That's why I'm going to try Process Monitor to see what happens when I close Vivaldi. Hopefully it will give me some clues. Like I said, it's always the parent process of Vivaldi that keeps hanging, apparently it's busy doing something, and that's why it also can't close all of the child processes.
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@EricJH said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
I am interested to see your finding with Process Monitor.
Sadly enough it didn't give me a lot of clues, it were just a lot of thread exit, thread create and load image events. But I did notice that eventually after about 5 minutes, Vivaldi is able to close itself. So it takes quite a while. My next step is to test with Vivaldi 6.1 and 6.6 with the exact same settings and extensions and let's see what happens. I have a feeling that Viv 6.1 won't show this behavior which started with 6.4 and persists in 6.5. This would proof that the problem is in Vivaldi itself and not in my security tools or extensions.
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@RasheedHolland And yet, that is not the case here, or in a couple of million other instances. If not the case here, yet happening there, one asks: What is different?
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@Ayespy said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
@RasheedHolland And yet, that is not the case here, or in a couple of million other instances. If not the case here, yet happening there, one asks: What is different?
I see what you mean. But perhaps the difference is the way we use our browsers? I open many tabs at the same time, and I have a lot of bookmarks. I also keep Vivaldi in memory for at least 48 hours. Or perhaps Vivaldi isn't optimized for Intel Core 10th gen CPU's anymore?
And don't forget, I'm not the only one who complains about slower performance (after a while) and Vivaldi hanging in memory. And I doubt they use the exact same extensions (I use 10) and security tools as me. I also noticed that Viv 6.5 did get a bit more snappy, so seems like the developers did tweak a couple of things.
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@RasheedHolland said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
@EricJH said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
That means I have two basic questions for you to answer:
- Can you confirm you did temporarily uninstall Spyshelter (and reboot the PC)?
- Do you agree that any program that runs driver(s) in kernel mode has the capability to influence performance of OS and applications?
1 No
2 Yes, but I have been using HIPS for 20 years, and I know when they might cause problems and when not. I have been using Vivaldi since version 2 with the exact same versions of SpyShelter (SS), on both Win 8.1 and Win 10 and I know for a fact that SS won't slow down performance of apps, and will not cause apps to hang in memory. Especially not if you gave those apps the right permissions.It is unfortunate you did not temporarily uninstall Spyshelter. It is a necessary and also a bit of an uncomfortable step that is also suggested by Ayespy. Boasting your experience does not absolve you from this uncomfortable and necessary step.
That is because your style of writing is over the top and tiring. On every occasion you are pedantically showing off how knowledgeable and superior you are. People will typically get tired and weary of your posts fairly quickly regardless whether you might also bring some merit to the table.
I'm sorry, but now you're doing the exact same as what you accuse me of. This whole post of yours is to show off your knowledge of HIPS and how they can interfere with apps, it's very tiring especially because I'm not rookie when it comes to HIPS software.
I made that elaborate description to see if you would take the bait. It helps to get a taste of your character. But I also stated CIS and Spyshelter to be kindred spirits. signaling I am sympathetic to the type of proactive security program you are using.
As Ayespy stated in his lengthy reply a HIPS is potentially capable of interfering with performance and should be considered.
If we cannot agree on this point we will be missing an important step in the basic troubleshooting and which might end up not going anywhere.
And I didn't have these problems with Vivaldi 6.1, with the exact same configuration and extensions. Of course those extensions may have updated themselves in the mean time, so they can still play a role. But this is the 10th time or so I had to repeat this, now that's tiring!
Reiterating does not absolve you from temporarily uninstalling Spyshelter as part of the process of systematic eliminating of causes.
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@RasheedHolland 6.1 might not show the unwanted behavior. 6.2 introduced portals. Something (SpyShelter?) on your system may have reacted badly to portals. This is exactly the kind of change that can cause 3rd party security software to stop accepting safe apps.
Needless to say, Vivaldi will not be withdrawing portals, which made Vivaldi up to 37% faster on all test systems.
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@EricJH said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
It is unfortunate you did not temporarily uninstall Spyshelter. It is a necessary and also a bit of an uncomfortable step that is also suggested by Ayespy. Boasting your experience does not absolve you from this uncomfortable and necessary step.
That's why I said, trust me because I already know it's not SpyShelter. You're too focused on people trying to boast, it's not about boasting, it's about trying to explain to people like you why I believe that SS is not the problem. Not all HIPS work exactly the same.
I know that Comodo for example is a lot more aggressive, which why it might cause more problems than SpyShelter. SS does not affect performance of apps, as mentioned before. It doesn't constantly monitor the file system, it only alerts when apps trigger a certain behavior like trying to monitor keystrokes or trying to perform DLL injection et cetera. If apps have received the needed permissions, then SS will not interfere with them.
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@Ayespy said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
@RasheedHolland 6.1 might not show the unwanted behavior. 6.2 introduced portals. Something (SpyShelter?) on your system may have reacted badly to portals. This is exactly the kind of change that can cause 3rd party security software to stop accepting safe apps. Needless to say, Vivaldi will not be withdrawing portals, which made Vivaldi up to 37% faster on all test systems.
Like I said, SpyShelter is not the problem. Also, what about all other people who have complained in this thread, are they also using SpyShelter or some other security tool? I'm guessing that most of us are using Windows Defender. Would be interesting to know.
But I did forget about the Portals thingy, all problems started when Vivaldi was supposedly optimized in 6.2. But like I said, I did notice that Viv 6.5 is more snappy than 6.4, now only the hanging in memory problem should be solved. Eventhough not all people experience these type of problems, I would still advice the developers to take a look at Vivaldi's shutdown process, perhaps this can be tweaked.
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@RasheedHolland
Hi, there is no "hanging in memory problem", you are the only user report this.
I don't read all treads in the forum but 95% and I cant remember anyone else report this ever.
I run a test with Vivaldi 6.5.3206.53 at moment for 20 hours, with 105 tabs.
I will close it tomorrow and see what happen, last test was with 6.4 for 5 days with 450 tabs.Cheers, mib
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@mib2berlin said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
@RasheedHolland
Hi, there is no "hanging in memory problem", you are the only user report this.
I don't read all treads in the forum but 95% and I cant remember anyone else report this ever.
I run a test with Vivaldi 6.5.3206.53 at moment for 20 hours, with 105 tabs.
I will close it tomorrow and see what happen, last test was with 6.4 for 5 days with 450 tabs.Cheers, mib
No I'm not, multiple people in this thread have reported this hanging in memory problem. Probably because they suspect it has got something to do with the choppy performance problems. And keep in mind, we didn't see this behavior with Viv 6.1, while security tools have not changed. But thanks for the extreme testing. I know that not all people see this behavior, that's why it's probably so tricky to solve for the developers.
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Hello all, just wanted to chime in:
I've been following this thread since page 4, when I also started experiencing problems, after I think 3 years of flawless Vivaldi usage on Win7/10/11 (Linux experiences varied
)What 'pfine', '0bit' and 'protofik have described, I would use those words exactly, it sounds like the same 'issue', if there is an issue, so I don't add anything there.
But regarding trying to make this problem go away, having gone through this thread and the various suggestions:
- efficiency mode made no difference
- disable-extensions had me excited for 12 hours, but the problem returned the next morning.
I was expecting to try a full reset, but I got fed up, instead I've just uninstalled, reinstalled 6.1, restored my settings, and everything is great again.
Unfortunately I don't really expect this to be a sustainable solution long term, so will continue to monitor this thread. Thanks all.
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@moosejc said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
- disable-extensions had me excited for 12 hours, but the problem returned the next morning.
I was expecting to try a full reset, but I got fed up, instead I've just uninstalled, reinstalled 6.1, restored my settings, and everything is great again.
Thanks for this info, so running with no extensions made no difference, this is valuable info to know. A reset isn't going to help most likely, I've already tried this, I recently reinstalled Windows 10 and Vivaldi 6.5. I also still need to reconfigure Viv 6.1 with the exact same settings and extensions, to see if the problem goes away. I hope Vivaldi 6.6 will solve it, but I'm not counting it. So then I will continue to use Viv 6.1, unless Viv 6.6 has got some killer features.
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@moosejc said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
But regarding trying to make this problem go away, having gone through this thread and the various suggestions:
- efficiency mode made no difference
- disable-extensions had me excited for 12 hours, but the problem returned the next morning.
BTW, I forgot to ask, on which Windows (10/11) system was this, and what security tools are you using?
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@RasheedHolland Hi RasheedHolland, this is all now on Windows 11. I have seen your discussions regarding 'SpyShelter', nothing like that here, only Windows Defender. I virtualize a lot so I tend to keep my main desktop clean. I also have in addition to onboard Intel graphics, an Nvidia GPU.
What @Ayespy mentions is very interesting, so I guess if portals was introduced in 6.2+, I am a candidate to be very affected. I have a lot of monitors, and my standard Vivaldi layout is usually 5 windows across 3 monitors. So while opening has improved, after time, I get the tab glitching that others have mentioned. Actually, even closing a window becomes very difficult, and monitoring Task Manager here confirms a lot of Vivaldi processes hanging around, sometimes for 5 minutes afterwards. It also makes restarting impossible until everything has unloaded / End Task is submitted.
From my understanding, portals is moved from 'experimental' from 6.2 onwards into part of Vivaldi from 6.5+? I am guessing, if I was to run 6.2-6.4 with 'Disable browser windows in portal' checked under vivaldi:experimental, the issue would go away? But I will stick with 6.1 for now, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'
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@Ayespy I like your suggestion portals might be a factor.
@RasheedHolland said in Extremely slow performance since upgrade:
That's why I said, trust me because I already know it's not SpyShelter. You're too focused on people trying to boast, it's not about boasting, it's about trying to explain to people like you why I believe that SS is not the problem. Not all HIPS work exactly the same.
The problem is that there is no alternative for temporarily uninstalling Spyshelter. In the end you will have to test this regardless of how plausible the explanations.
You keep on stating Spyshelter cannot be to blame and come up with likely explanations that indicate the approximate whereabouts of the problem but they neither provide proof nor cannot be tested. That's the problem.
For a proper bug report which might persuade Spyshelter or Vivaldi to take a look at the issue it needs to be reproducible.
You continuous reluctance to temporarily uninstall had me wonder if you are uncomfortable with uninstalling Spyshelter because you worry your system will be less protected with Defender and Windows Firewall? Is that what is keeping you from uninstalling it? Yes or no?
If that is the case temporarily install Comodo or Avast and see if the problem persists or not. They will both do a good job of protecting you.
Hypothetically speaking. If uninstalling Spyshelter would show Spyshelter to be the cause would you be willing to (also) report it with Spyshelter? Yes or no?
