Why Vivaldi will never create ThinkCoin
-
I am a bit saddened by the lack of basic knowledge and understanding demonstrated in this article. Jumping in on the hype of "hating" blockchain without doing a little bit of research is not reassuring. Especially when coming from the CEO of such a nice project, this kind of lack of vision is disappointing (I recommend the 3rd industrial revolution lecture from Jeremy Rifkin on youtube, it doesn't address the topic directly, but connecting the dots from there isn't too difficult). Hating on blockchain technology today is like hating on the internet in the 90s, products take time to mature. If many people (including academia, governments, etc...) are excited by blockchain today (and I specifically say blockchain here and not crypto), it might be for a good reason
-
@julien_picalausa The simple fact that this statement is necessary suggests otherwise.
-
@victorguillet No person hates a blockchain or a cryptocurrency.
Some people do not have a need to use such technology. -
@doctorg: Fair enough, as a gentle reminder though, a similar thing was said about the internet initially. Blockchain as a concept is not old, but might be evident in its implications already, despite it still admittedly being of very little use in its current applications. Blockchains (and DAGs) are enabling creating the literal internet of value, and it is likely to play a pivotal role along with the internet of things, transport internet, and energy internet on the rise.
It provides a programing language for value. This is also why we are seeing 8000 different currencies today, anyone can now tinker and experiment. Most are admittedly useless, or poorly done, but does it really matter? The bad ones die, the good/useful ones stay. We do the exact same thing in the data internet (right here), and it has brought about tools like vivaldi, or any other program for that matter, which we never thought we needed before. Calling something a scam and pyramid scheme does qualify as a form of hate, which is disappointing given the article is factually wrong on many points. Additionally, voluntarily or not, deception by omission is also ethically debatable, and this articles omits a lot.P.S. Im sorry btw, this comment was not addressed to you as much as the comment below it btw. I clicked on the wrong reply button hence the addressed user being different*. But cheers to the interesting conversation non-the-less!
-
@arbpen said in Why Vivaldi will never create ThinkCoin:
But, if computer systems go down because of some infrastructure disaster, what are you going to say?
Bank accounts are vulnerable to the same issues. Users can be scammed, banks can make errors, passwords can be lost, if the power or the Internet is not available, people cannot access their funds, etc.
As with any disruptive technology:
First they ignore you, then they say you're mad, then dangerous, then there's a pause and then you can't find anyone who disagrees with you. (Tony Benn)
Cash in bank accounts dwindles away due to inflation. The banks invest your cash, that is how they can afford secure high street buildings, ATM machines, security guards, advertising, and highly paid executives. Guess who pays their salaries? They have a lot to lose if any cryptocurrency becomes mainstream.
-
@nalf: I logged in just to be able to upvote your comment
-
@julien_picalausa: "The point has been extensively researched by several Vivaldi engineers over the last few years years, myself included."
Thank you for your time invested in this research. I myself have done some pretty deep research too, and have reached the same conclussions. -
@sveino: You are clearly biased. All the best for you, though.
BTW, Ad hominem or ad verecundiam arguments are not the best way to discuss these matters. -
I fully agree, as I have a few crypto. So I know how it works. But i also see al the mentioned downsides, and not enough added benefits, at the moment. Really pow is a very bad idea that continually needs more far to cheap power, there is no reason to think it will ever need less power.
-
@xmasbug: yes, tulips have a real value. They make people especially woman feel good.
-
@aqasoft: I might be biased, but what about Jon's original post? I would say it's extremely biased and lacking knowledge about the subject. At least I've studied this for years.
-
@sveino Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment. The subject of digital coins is very interesting but at the same time extremely dividing between coiners and no coiners. I wish it wasn't that way.
Jon is stating a thoughtful opinion backed up with his research on the field and the help of many of Vivaldi's team members. It is clearly not a one man's decision.
At the same time, you have studied the subject thoroughly and it would be foolish not to take your point of view into account.
And then again, lots of people may dissent, like I do, having given the digital coins world a good time of studying and thinking. And take my opinion as that of an electronic engineer with an MBA and many years of software development and IT experience.
Like I said previously, all the best of luck with your investment.
Again, as a final thought, I think Jon's got a point worth respecting and taking into account.
-
@aqasoft said in Why Vivaldi will never create ThinkCoin:
[D]igital coins [are] extremely dividing between coiners and no coiners.
Coiners and no coiners? What are you talking about?
-
@erecster Yeah but at least Firefox is open source. Also it seems to me that the Mozilla decision was a more careful one that could be changed later as crypto gets more eco friendly, whereas the Vivaldi post is much more extreme. I respect Jon but have noticed that he tends to have extreme views and isnβt open to new perspectives.
-
@eggcorn Very simply put, in the jargon, coiners are advocates of cryptocurrency and no-coiners are anti-cryptocurrency. The ones in the middle are able to debate on the subject, while coiners and no-coiners have severely strong positions and are unable to debate healthily.
-
Using Icelandic Banks was a gamble not so long ago.
When some well-known financial institutions failed, the government was obliged to bail them out. Wealthy executives received golden-handshakes as a reward for their mismanagement, while the British tax-payers paid the bills.
HSBC were fined Β£64 million for money-laundering.
The problem I see with pension funds is that you may be indirectly investing in things that are harmful to society: alcohol, animal slaughter, weapon manufacture, betting, etc. The risks are typically spread in an ETF.
If you are intelligent, and willing to do some research, why not invest in something that you consider beneficial to society, whether that is medical research, green energy, or whatever else you want to see progress?
-
@aqasoft Than the problem isn't that digital coins divide "coiners" and "non-coiners". The problem is: Those people embrace a childish us-and-them mindset! If they weren't divided over digital coins, they'd just be divided over something else.
-
@eggcorn So true!
-
Your stance is mine; I'm so glad Vivaldi won't even consider adding any CC features. That would have really disturbed me given my view on CC's. Thank you!
-
@victorguillet said:
'Calling something a scam and pyramid scheme does qualify as a form of hate ...'. Thus the definition of hate becomes VERY broad and an 'intense emotion' is watered down to 'disagreement with something,' or 'a position on something'. Let's not ruin a good word.