I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox 😇
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@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Is Safari Chromium?
I guess not, but their engines are very close to each other:
On April 3, 2013, Google announced that it would produce a fork of WebKit's WebCore component, to be named Blink. Chrome's developers decided on the fork to allow greater freedom in implementing WebCore's features in the browser without causing conflicts upstream, and to allow simplifying its codebase by removing code for WebCore components unused by Chrome. In relation to Opera Software's announcement earlier in the year that it would switch to WebKit by means of the Chromium codebase, it was confirmed that the Opera web browser would also switch to Blink.[43] Following the announcement, WebKit developers began discussions on removing Chrome-specific code from the engine to streamline its codebase.[71] WebKit no longer has any Chrome specific code (e.g., buildsystem, V8 JavaScript engine hooks, platform code, etc.).
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@Stardust Hmm. I am in Firefox right now. It is okay, not great, certaintly not as good as google chrome. It should be blazing fast for it is a stripped-down browser with no extensions, but it is not any faster than Vivaldi with a React UI and 10 extensions. The whole browser feels a bit "tone-deaf," I do not know why you people cheat on Vivaldi with.... this. Sorry, I will try FF a bit more, maybe it is not as bad as I think.
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@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:I am in Firefox right now.
certaintly not as good as google chrome.
Who even uses chrome
It should be blazing fast for it is a stripped-down browser with no extensions, but it is not any faster than Vivaldi with a React UI and 10 extensions.
Are you talking about site rendering or UI?
Site rendering speed in V-SS and FF hard to distinguish for me...
It's pretty fast in both.The whole browser feels a bit "tone-deaf," I do not know why you people cheat on Vivaldi with.... this.
It feels pretty good :face_savouring_delicious_food:
Latest FF-N here with dark compact theme:
Sorry, I will try FF a bit more, maybe it is not as bad as I think.
Check out Zoom responsiveness in Firefox and middle click scrolling aka Autoscrolling
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@deep1dive said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Superior UI - customizable panel on left, main menu on top left corner
And Vivaldi will be even more customizable in the future I think.
Better Speed Dial page - loads very quickly and customizable
100%
More Privacy by default - Firefox contains tons of Telemetry by default: Vivaldi doesn't have much data collecting
When I install the fresh Firefox It takes a few seconds to disable telemetry related settings in the main settings (not in about:config)Not owned by The Devil - Mozilla is The Devil which has been working against the users for quite a long time
Well, yeah I'm not happy with Mozilla decisions too e.g. the recent removal of the compact mode
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:See pic above.
...removal from the UI, the setting is still in about:config (in FF-N)
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@deep1dive said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Superior UI - customizable panel on left, main menu on top left corner
Yeah, FF UI is messed up. Why is my address bar short when there is so much URL to show? Why are buttons hidden when there is plenty of free space? Why does the bookmarks panel take a full second to position? Why can’t it position itself? Why is my scroll bar ugly? Why does that bouncy loader make site loading feel stalled?
The only thing I like about FF UI is the tabs, but I can make V tabs just as good looking with CSS. I think they have little money compared to google and are spending it all on keeping up the rendering engine, not improving their UI.
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Yup. I definitely cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox too.
For my use case, I use Vivaldi when I want to really multitask. My problem with V is that it makes my computer's fans scream for help like they want to fly away while my computer's CPU suffers. FF doesn't do that even with several tabs.
FF is much better for easy customizing. I have extensions that give me V-like functionality and because I can drag them anywhere I can make them feel pretty stock. FF also has random features like the Open option for downloads that saves to a temporary folder, a better PDF reader, and mouse access to the toolbars while in fullscreen.
V is better at multitasking. I use tab tiles, stacks, and panels a lot. The built-in calendar is good too because it has the Melt event reminder which is hard to miss. It's better for my past computer lifestyle where I lived in the browser all the time, but now that I rely less on Google I have more offline programs.To answer your questions I am split between FF and V, but I have problems with both. I don't have a main browser but my computer default is FF.
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@code3 I don't like the default Firefox look:
- no search bar
- empty spaces on the sides
- most useful buttons are absent: drop down bookmark menu, zoom buttons
So the first thing I do after fresh installation (after I disabled telemetry settings ofc) is go to the customization mode (Customize Toolbar):
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@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Why does the bookmarks panel take a full second to position? Why can’t it position itself?
Not sure, I don't use Bookmarks Toolbar (ctrl+shift+b). Quick test in FF-B, works fine for me.
Why is my scroll bar ugly?
Nowadays sites can hijack browser scrollbar (e.g. YouTube), and I also think it depends of your OS and DE theme.
Why does that bouncy loader make site loading feel stalled?
Do you mean this site loading animation:
I think it's pretty cool
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Heehee. Last night i chose to reinstall Pale Moon for giggles. Once launched i was violently thrust right back in my chair by the visual assault. I'd really forgotten how ugly & old-fashioned the PM UI is. Ugh.
@guigirl please be ontopic (see the OP post)
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@Stardust Okay, I will try some customizations and themes. Also, sorry to post this, but FF market share is definitely falling. It could rise a little with this FloC stuff, but not much, anyone who doesn't like google already isn't using Chrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers -
@code3 said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Okay, I will try some customizations and themes.
BTW I am only using Firefox default themes, not themes from https://addons.mozilla.org
Don't forget there are 3 density options available
Also, sorry to post this, but FF market share is definitely falling.
Well, this is sad if true
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:I really hate it that LtU&E contains so many imponderables.
Dt&sKn
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:Just wondering, do you achieve this simply via
Yes! Nightly Data Collection and Use in the settings.
Why do you think it's not enough? -
@guigirl Case closed. Debate is over. You did give the most evident and the ultimate argument.
Can't you see it? FF needed 90! versions while Vivaldi just needed 3 versions (only 3! how incredible! how impressive! how remarkable!) to be at +/- the same level (read above discussion for more details on the pros and cons
)
Imagine where Vivaldi will be after 87 additional versions. Can't you see it? No, of course you can't, it goes far beyond our collective imagination.
Far beyond!
4-2 infinity and beyond! -
@Ornorm, that's when Vivaldi becomes aware of his own
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It is very saddening to see firefox falling down so dramatically but mozilla must accept it's share of the responsibilty here.They have completely forgotten what made firefox in the first place and they have instead tried to imitate chromium in a vain attempt to gain market share and it simply is not working out for them.
They dumped the full themes which was the first mistake of many.If they wish to go forward then they should start to look back at version 30-40 and see the errors they have made.
I do think their browser is important to stop a completely chromium based internet but sadly the new mozilla have lost the spirit of the old one.At this moment vivaldi is really the only browser which offers the customisation which firefox used to have and mozilla only have themselves to blame.
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@Stardust I notice you asked me if V was faster rendering or in general UI, and also if I was really sure that V was more private.
Regarding "speed", on a single-core 800MHz 32-bit netbook with 2GB RAM, running Devuan Beowulf, where I'd expect any differences in performance to be amplified significantly, I'd say Vivaldi is faster at rendering web pages, and that the general responsiveness of the GUI is exactly the same as Firefox - opening new tabs, navigating menus etc. The only area Firefox is noticeably faster is the initial loading of the browser.
Regarding privacy I can see your point and I am actually undecided myself as to whether I stand by what I said or agree with you. Let me present what little I've managed to determine: - a stock Firefox (especially non-ESR) makes dozens of unsolicited connections on startup and many more when you simply just interact with the interface (e.g. clicking menus). A small number of these are related to things like auto-updates and safebrowsing, but many seem to be to do with telemetry, "studies" and "experiments", based on the settings that (appear to) shut them up. Vivaldi, on the other hand, seems to just ping Vivaldi's servers on startup and then ping the various Goggle services it uses, such as the safebrowsing list and extension store. All these connections in Vivaldi can be minimised, but not completely eliminated, from the regular settings dialogue. After disabling whatever I can, Vivaldi still periodically pings the Vivaldi servers every once in a while. In contrast, reducing Firefox's chattiness the same amount (or even completely shutting-up Firefox), requires disabling various things in the settings dialogue, followed by disabling dozens of other options within "about:config". Some of these have counterintuitive names such as "normandy", "asrouter", "mstone" or "someopaqueterm.telemetry.randomjargon". Sometimes the name of these options doesn't make it clear whether setting to "true" or "false" actually disables the offending option, and there doesn't seem to be a standard convention regarding similar options. Sometimes it takes the form "spyware.enabled" which you set to false, or "spyware.disablespying", which you set to true!
I haven't studied them both in enough detail or for long enough, but from a brief cursory inspection it looks like out of the box, V contacts more Goggle servers but Firefox does a lot more unsolicited phoning-home in general. Taking just the standard settings dialogues in to account, there's not much to choose from but Vivaldi appeared to be a bit easier to shut-up and the end result was V making less unsolicited connections than Firefox. After fiddling with about:config I think I managed to completely silence Firefox - but without longer and more thorough testing, you can never be sure. Also, in practise I allow both browsers to auto-update themselves and their extensions, so there will always be some background connections occurring.
So Firefox definitely has a greater privacy potential over all, but V appeared to actually be slightly better-behaved both out-of-the-box and after solely GUI-based tweaking. That said, it also depends on who you trust the least - e.g. do you feel safer having 5 connections to various Mozilla-operated servers, or 2 to Goggle-operated servers? So based on how you interpret it, you could argue that just what I've presented demonstrates either browser being "more" private than the other.
On the theme of unsolicited connections and other browsers, I actually really like the Otter browser - it's basically attempting exactly what Vivaldi is also trying to achieve (i.e. be what Opera would have become, had it not turned to the dark side). I also haven't observed it make a single unsolicited connection anywhere. Unfortunately, the project is grossly-underresourced and as a result the browser has lots of quirks and bugs, and really struggles to render much of the web.
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@guigirl said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:@Stardust said in I cheat on Vivaldi with Firefox
:don't like the default Firefox look
Heehee. Last night i chose to reinstall Pale Moon for giggles. Once launched i was violently thrust right back in my chair by the visual assault. I'd really forgotten how ugly & old-fashioned the PM UI is. Ugh.
I sympathise with you - it renders absolutely horribly in non-Losedows environments because in Losedows it can replace the title bar like Crummy-um does, and make everything a bit smoother and more compact. On real computers it uses your standard title bar and then cobbles together the rest of its interface below that using, presumably, some archaic version of GTK that archaeologists had previously thought lost.
Fortunately, your experience is what the themes are for. PM doesn't look very nice when rendered with the standard operating-system widgets, but it's not too bad if you use something like the "new moon" persona/theme/whatever-they're-called.
I'm a fan of them building it and trying to prevent a browser monoculture (or duopoly), and a lot of their project's goals, but I now shy away from using it after the attitude they displayed towards a handful of volunteers who were just trying to see if they could port it to BSD. You want the people who build your window to the internet to display integrity and professionalism in everything they do, as you're trusting them with a lot.
One thing I love about Firefox is I can skin it. I tend to use a forest or mountains theme. I'd love it if there was a similar option in Vivaldi but IMHO its interface already looks good just set to dark.
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@Stardust @guigirl might have stumbled upon how the zoom controls were moved.
https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/258995
https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/307738Of course it was
@LonMand@tam710562, so many clever mods out of those two.
