The "exit" command exits all windows at once, leading to unexpected accidents...

[TsunamiZ]

In the Vivaldi menu, the "exit" command exits all windows at once, not just the current one. This is non-standard behavior and users don't expect that, leading to unexpected accidents. Instead of making users find out the hard way, please improve the exit experience when using the menu. This can be done by renaming "exit" to "exit all windows". And move "close window" to the first level of the menu and rename it to "exit". So users will see both choices of "exit all windows" and "exit" at the bottom of the menu. I know we can edit the menu ourselves, but this should be improved by default.

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[DETAILS]

i will further explain the reasoning for this. the current design of the menu for those actions is flawed and needs to be fixed. that is why i also categorized this request as a bug. even if other web browsers share the same design flaw, it doesn't mean vivaldi should copy their flaw. compared to most other programs, the current design is non-standard behavior.

there is a difference between using the terms "exit" and "close". the expected behavior of using "exit" is that just the current taskbar window will close, not all of them at once. and the expected behavior of using "close" is for closing a document within a taskbar window, while leaving that taskbar window open. since vivaldi uses multiple taskbar windows, not documents within a taskbar window, the proper naming term for terminating them should be based on "exit" as i originally described. so it is best to implement this request to make the experience better and more intuitive for vivaldi users.

NOTE: a program's "exit" command in the menu is expected to behave like the "X" button in the top right corner of the taskbar window.

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[bug reported VB-78314]

[TbGbe]

@TsunamiZ I don't believe that most users confuse exit with close.
Exit is used to terminate the application.
Close is used with application windows (not the application).
Similarly, you don't exit tabs - you close them.

[TsunamiZ]

@Gwen-Dragon
@TbGbe

i will further explain the reasoning for this. the current design of the menu for those actions is flawed and needs to be fixed. that is why i also categorized this request as a bug. even if other web browsers share the same design flaw, it doesn't mean vivaldi should copy their flaw. compared to most other programs, the current design is non-standard behavior.

there is a difference between using the terms "exit" and "close". the expected behavior of using "exit" is that just the current taskbar window will close, not all of them at once. and the expected behavior of using "close" is for closing a document within a taskbar window, while leaving that taskbar window open. since vivaldi uses multiple taskbar windows, not documents within a taskbar window, the proper naming term for terminating them should be based on "exit" as i originally described. so it is best to implement this request to make the experience better and more intuitive for vivaldi users.

NOTE: a program's "exit" command in the menu is expected to behave like the "X" button in the top right corner of the taskbar window.

[TbGbe]

@TsunamiZ said in The "exit" command exits all windows at once, leading to unexpected accidents...:

a program's "exit" command in the menu is expected to behave like the "X" button in the top right corner of the taskbar window.

In my opinion, if you have multiple windows open, each window has an 'X' button, which performs the "close" function for that window, not the "exit" function.
If you want to end the whole application and close ALL windows, you use "exit". If this was another "close" there is no way to "exit" at all!

But at the end, everyone has their own interpretation of "close" and "exit" terminology.

[nomadic]

@TsunamiZ said in The "exit" command exits all windows at once, leading to unexpected accidents...:

Compared to most other programs, the current design is non-standard behavior.

The expected behavior of using "exit" is that just the current taskbar window will close, not all of them at once

It might help if you can provide examples of this because, most programs follow the standard that Vivaldi currently follows.

Visual Studio Code, a code editor made by Microsoft, follows this same standard. It is an Electron App, so it does rely on Chromium, but Microsoft still follows the standard for Close to close the current window and Exit to close all windows and quit the program.

Even if other web browsers share the same design flaw, it doesn't mean Vivaldi should copy their flaw

If other browsers follow the same standard, should Vivaldi really deviate from that standard? That sounds like a more confusing and overall worse experience for new users of Vivaldi.

A new user coming to Vivaldi is most likely coming from another browser, so they would expect the same terminology to apply to Vivaldi as well.

[TsunamiZ]

@TbGbe
@nomadic

i have been a power user for many years, and i have a lot of experience with using many different kinds of programs. compared to most other programs, the current design is non-standard behavior. you can test this with some common programs that allow multiple taskbar windows, such as notepad, wordpad, paint, etc. so most users generally expect "exit" to exit only the current taskbar window, not all of them at once. if a program deviates from this expected standard behavior, the exit command needs to be renamed properly to inform the user of what will happen, as i originally described. the problem here is that vivaldi needs to fix the naming of these commands to be more informative, and intuitively place them next to each other where users expect to find them. this will prevent any confusion and unexpected accidents. at the very least, even if vivaldi insists on keeping the bad names, placing the two commands next to each other will at least give users a hint that they need to carefully choose the proper exit command. these are the problems this request is trying to fix. so it is best to implement this request to make the experience better and more intuitive for vivaldi users.

[sgunhouse]

You can edit menus, you could change it to Quit if that is clearer.

[TsunamiZ]

@sgunhouse

i already mentioned in the first post that "I know we can edit the menu ourselves, but this should be improved by default".

[nomadic]

@TsunamiZ Thanks for the examples. Definitely shows that there is ambiguity over what should be standard. I know Microsoft is scared to change some of their legacy programs, so it is hard to tell which behavior they prefer.

It still seems that it is standard behavior for browsers. Edge does now show Close Microsoft Edge instead of Exit, so who knows...

[TsunamiZ]

@nomadic

the point of this request is to improve the exit experience when using the menu. it is not about copying what other browsers do. even if other web browsers share the same design flaw, it doesn't mean vivaldi should copy their flaw. it is fine to have an exit command that exits all windows at once, but it should be named properly as "exit all windows" so users know what to expect, to prevent any confusion and unexpected accidents. and it should be placed next to a standard "exit" command so users know they need to carefully choose the proper exit command. this request is all pretty intuitive and common sense, really.

[dude99]

I'm really confused about this request, am I missing something?
There are already both Close Window & Exit command in the default menu.

Then, if we right-click on the taskbar of any app, it also use the term Close Window for all apps in Windows, instead of Exit.

I think it's widely accepted & understand that Exit/Quit means "Shutdown Application", thus it naturally will close all related window to this app.

While Close Window means "Close this specific Window" regardless of multi window support for any apps.

If we gonna argue about which term is better to descript Shutdown this App, I think "Exit Vivaldi" should be better than Close All Window.

[TsunamiZ]

@dude99 said in The "exit" command exits all windows at once, leading to unexpected accidents...:

I'm really confused about this request, am I missing something?
There are already both Close Window & Exit command in the default menu.

i'm talking about moving those two commands to the first level of the menu, and explicitly renaming them so users know what to expect, to prevent any confusion and unexpected accidents. and placing them next to each other, so users know they need to carefully choose the proper exit command.

Then, if we right-click on the taskbar of any app, it also use the term Close Window for all apps in Windows, instead of Exit.

in the taskbar window right click menu, that "close window" command name is controlled by windows. it is not specific to any program, and can be used to close any type of window, so microsoft just chose a more universal command name to fit any situation.

I think it's widely accepted & understand that Exit/Quit means "Shutdown Application", thus it naturally will close all related window to this app.

While Close Window means "Close this specific Window" regardless of multi window support for any apps.

i already explained the difference between using the terms "exit" and "close", how the current design is non-standard behavior, and provided some common examples. see here...
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/58842/the-exit-command-exits-all-windows-at-once-leading-to-unexpected-accidents/5
https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/58842/the-exit-command-exits-all-windows-at-once-leading-to-unexpected-accidents/8

If we gonna argue about which term is better to descript Shutdown this App, I think "Exit Vivaldi" should be better than Close All Window.

renaming it to "exit vivaldi" is still too vague. it should be explicitly renamed to "exit all windows" so users know what to expect, to prevent any confusion and unexpected accidents.

[TsunamiZ]

updated first post with a screenshot

[zakius]

exit means exactly that, it's not a close window but exit app, reversing that would be wildly confusing for everyone

and for some reason I see a lot of confusion in mobile too, mixing up locking the screen, backgrounding the app, closing the main activity and killing the possible background service... it makes communication so much harder when people use random words without thinking about their meaning

[LonM]

Hi, Unfortunately the developers have decided to mark this request as "Will not do", which means this request won't be implemented in Vivaldi.

The purpose of the exit command is to allow all windows to be exited at once, so the session can be resumed later. If you don't want it, you can remove the exit item by customising the menu.