Any word on M3? (internal mail client)

schreck

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

As much as I would have loved M3 to be in the upcoming release, it is not. It still requires some polishing. We continue to focus on stability and speed while polishing the feature set. As is widely known, a fair amount of us use it every day, but there are still show stoppers for wider distribution. We continue to make good progress on that and hopefully the wait will not be long now. We all realize now would be a good time to release, so we are doing our best to get this out ASAP.

truly spoken like a politician, saying nothing at all in that much sentences.

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

A number of us have been using M3 for quite some time and it works well for our use, but we want it to work well for you all.

yes quite some time is years.
can you maybe elaborate the difference between your use and other peoples uses exactly, so we understand the problems more that you obviously have to make this stable?
and i still dont get it since over 5 years waiting for this, why nobody can test builds with mail on our own, when we explicitely know the risks?

jon

@schreck said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

As much as I would have loved M3 to be in the upcoming release, it is not. It still requires some polishing. We continue to focus on stability and speed while polishing the feature set. As is widely known, a fair amount of us use it every day, but there are still show stoppers for wider distribution. We continue to make good progress on that and hopefully the wait will not be long now. We all realize now would be a good time to release, so we are doing our best to get this out ASAP.

truly spoken like a politician, saying nothing at all in that much sentences.

I am sorry you do not like my answer. It is the truth, however. A number of us are using M3 daily. There are, however, still issues in the mailer that need to be fixed before we release. We are close and we are very eager to share this with you, but we also want to give a good impression the first time, even with an unfinished product.

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

A number of us have been using M3 for quite some time and it works well for our use, but we want it to work well for you all.

yes quite some time is years.
can you maybe elaborate the difference between your use and other peoples uses exactly, so we understand the problems more that you obviously have to make this stable?
and i still dont get it since over 5 years waiting for this, why nobody can test builds with mail on our own, when we explicitely know the risks?

I think there is clearly a difference with what we can accept internally in the company and among select testers and what we want to show to the rest of the world. Certain issues we can deal with easily internally, but would be more difficult to deal with on remote computers.

Anyways, we are close. Hopefully we will have something to show you shortly. Thank you for your patience.

Cheers,
Jon.

Hadden89

@schreck Most home users - like you and me - could also accept the risks. The showstopper in pre-releasing the mail app is that a severe bug - like wiped IMAP/POPS - would be a marketing disaster and this wouldn't help Vivaldi future development or popularity.
I think it was a just a ingenuous mistake to tease the early M3 development.
We can only wait and use something else in the meantime like M2 or Thunderbird.

jon

@Hadden89 said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@schreck Most home users - like you and me - could also accept the risks. The showstopper in pre-releasing the mail app is that a severe bug there would be a marketing disaster and this wouldn't help Vivaldi future development or popularity.

I guess our evaluation is that there are certain issues we want to fix before we send out. In particular there are any changes in the db handling that would require updates on databases in active use. We could live with having to start from scratch, if needed, but we would prefer not to have to do that on active users out there.

I agree that a lot of active Vivaldi users could use what we have already. We just prefer to polish it a tiny bit more to fix a couple of issues we have seen those users that are testing already complain about.

Now the good thing is that we have added more stuff than was initially planned. We already have POP support. We have feeds support. We have a calendar. So generally we have added quite a lot of functionality while we polish what we got. Those things are not done by the same team members, so we have been able to get a lot done while the basics have been polished. That does not mean that there is not plenty still to work on, but we have a lot more functionality in our first release than originally planned.

Cheers,
Jon.

Jaws

@jon this sounds really good.
How about M2 import, is this already in place? I guess this would be a good way to have "heavy load" testing out there from the start, once it gets included in the snapshots.

Really looking forward to playing with it, thanks for all the hard work!

Nekomajin

@jon
Can we use the mail client, the feed reader and the calendar separately, or the whole stuff will be a single, glued together module?

I don't need a mail client at all, but I would be happy with a lightweight feed reader. I would also use the calendar, if it can subscribe to iCalendar feeds from online sources.

jon

@Jaws said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon this sounds really good.
How about M2 import, is this already in place? I guess this would be a good way to have "heavy load" testing out there from the start, once it gets included in the snapshots.

Really looking forward to playing with it, thanks for all the hard work!

@Jaws , thank you.

Import is sadly not in place. For IMAP users, with only active accounts, that is likely to not be a problem, but for POP users they would have to start with new mails and import old mails later. We wanted import in place, but it is not and we would rather show you what we got and add import later.

There are other loose ends, that we will work on as well. Now we are just working on getting what we got out there to get you testing while we polish whatever we have left. As with the browser, we will continue to improve M3 as well, based on your feedback.

Best,
Jon.

jon

@Nekomajin said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon
Can we use the mail client, the feed reader and the calendar separately, or the whole stuff will be a single, glued together module?

I don't need a mail client at all, but I would be happy with a lightweight feed reader. I would also use the calendar, if it can subscribe to iCalendar feeds from online sources.

@Nekomajin , the feed reader and the mailer work in tandem, but you do not need to set up any mail accounts to use it. We also plan to make a standalone feed reader in the future, although the backend will be shared.

The calendar is standalone, but it works well with the mailer as well. It can work with local and online calendars.

There will be things to tweak on this stuff, based on your feedback. We are designing things to work well together, but clearly we also want things to work in the way it works best for you. As always our goal is to satisfy the needs of all our users, through a flexible UI.

Cheers,
Jon.

Nekomajin

@jon
I mean, can I have a Feeds panel or a Feeds page (like Bookmarks and History) without seeing anything related to emails? I like to keep the UI as clean as possible to decrease the clutter. Moreover, the Chromium engine already eats a lot of resources, I don't want any more processes running in the background, which I don't use.

burnout426

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

We have feeds support.

There are some things I'd like to see in this area eventually.

When RSS/Atom feeds are detected on the page, there should be an RSS icon in the address field. When you click it, you should have multiple options:
- Open the feed in M3.
- Open the feed in a feed web service of your choice. (Default-provided ones with the option to define your own with a template URL)
- Open the feed in the program on the system associated with the feed protocol. This means that Vivaldi, should convert https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/ for example to feed://https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/, load it in a tab so it gets passed to the default feed handler on the system (Thunderbird for example), and close the tab.
- An "Open with other program" option to choose a specific program with the option of passing the http(s) URL or passing it as a feed URL.
- Option to set one of those as the default-selected one.
- Those options can be on a feed preview page like Opera 12 does. The whole thing would be a lot like Opera 12.
Vivaldi should support the feed protocol itself too and it should support being set as the default feed protocol handler on the system.

For example:

vivaldi.exe feed://https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/

would load the preview page where you can then decide what to do with it in the preview page using the options mentioned above. Doing:

vivaldi.exe https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/

in this case would have the same end result of course, but that would be via feed:// association.

Opera 12 had a lot of this. It was mostly just missing feed URL support.

jon

@Nekomajin said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon
I mean, can I have a Feeds panel or a Feeds page (like Bookmarks and History) without seeing anything related to emails? I like to keep the UI as clean as possible to decrease the clutter. Moreover, the Chromium engine already eats a lot of resources, I don't want any more processes running in the background, which I don't use.

Over time we will offer more flexibility here. Initially the feeds functionality is built on top of the mailer. They use the same structure, which has a lot of benefits. Anyways, you will get to play with this all soon. You may just find that you like it the way it is.

Cheers,
Jon.

jon

@burnout426 said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

We have feeds support.

There are some things I'd like to see in this area eventually.

When RSS/Atom feeds are detected on the page, there should be an RSS icon in the address field. When you click it, you should have multiple options:

Open the feed in M3.

Open the feed in a feed web service of your choice. (Default-provided ones with the option to define your own with a template URL)

Open the feed in the program on the system associated with the feed protocol. This means that Vivaldi, should convert https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/ for example to feed://https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/, load it in a tab so it gets passed to the default feed handler on the system (Thunderbird for example), and close the tab.

An "Open with other program" option to choose a specific program with the option of passing the http(s) URL or passing it as a feed URL.

Option to set one of those as the default-selected one.

Those options can be on a feed preview page like Opera 12 does. The whole thing would be a lot like Opera 12.

Vivaldi should support the feed protocol itself too and it should support being set as the default feed protocol handler on the system.

For example:
vivaldi.exe feed://https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/
would load the preview page where you can then decide what to do with it in the preview page using the options mentioned above. Doing:
vivaldi.exe https://vivaldi.com/blog/feed/
in this case would have the same end result of course, but that would be via feed:// association.

Opera 12 had a lot of this. It was mostly just missing feed URL support.

Once M3 is out, you can play with this all and provide feedback. Our goal is, of course, to offer the kind of flexibility you want. Not everything will be in the first version, but we have quite a lot in there already.

Cheers,
Jon.

Hadden89

@jon And I presume the mail will appear in a snapshot and only then after some stable (as was done for sync).
I'm quite curious to see this long waited flexible mail app. One imap account is waiting it ^^

jon

@Hadden89 said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@jon And I presume the mail will appear in a snapshot and only then after some stable (as was done for sync).
I'm quite curious to see this long waited flexible mail app. One imap account is waiting it ^^

Yes, we will see this in early versions before any final release. Clearly it needs to be tested widely.

Cheers,
Jon.

jumpsq

@burnout426 See, for me your requirements are all nice to haves (except maybe for RSS preview which I find more essential). I would much rather have contacts integrated into my M3, and settings about when to add mail addresses to them (based on the account I use) and also, which account should be used to send emails when I have a specific recipient etc.

And I am sooooo much looking forward to the calendar. Cannot wait!

@jon Thank you for engaging with us about these topics. Much appreciated.

npro

stop teasing with info and details please since we don't know when it's coming, it creates huge expectations which makes the waiting unbearable, which is not nice , not nice at all

kahukura

@npro I do appreciate to get some info and look forward seeing the first public version.

jon

@jumpsq said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@burnout426 See, for me your requirements are all nice to haves (except maybe for RSS preview which I find more essential). I would much rather have contacts integrated into my M3, and settings about when to add mail addresses to them (based on the account I use) and also, which account should be used to send emails when I have a specific recipient etc.

And I am sooooo much looking forward to the calendar. Cannot wait!

@jon Thank you for engaging with us about these topics. Much appreciated.

@jumpsq , the pleasure is all mine.

Cheers,
Jon.

jon

@npro said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

stop teasing with info and details please since we don't know when it's coming, it creates huge expectations which makes the waiting unbearable, which is not nice , not nice at all

@npro , sorry about that. I just feel that it is important to keep you in the loop. I am also telling you more as I am feeling confident that the wait will not be too long, but sadly we still need a bit more time.

jon

@kahukura said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

@npro I do appreciate to get some info and look forward seeing the first public version.

@kahukura , I am so looking forward to showing you what we got. There is a lot in here, although I also know that some people will want more. That is expected, but we are trying to cover a lot of ground in the first release even.