What is stopping you from using V all the time?

QuHno

@xtremalraven said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

It's incredibly slow if you have a lot of tabs. It takes about an hour just to fire up the browser, I kid you not.

Lazy load restored tabs.

I have similar numbers of tabs in a startup session because I suffer with tabitis too and even with about 300 tabs it takes only about 5s to start. Yes, it is not instant - but definitely not "hours" and the devs are working on that right now.

XtremAlRaven

@quhno

@quhno said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

Lazy load restored tabs.

Already have this, of course. Doesn't help. Both Windows and MacOS.

andyraisbeck

@quhno I use Vivaldi all the time, except my dallying with the new restored Firefox 57.
It can be slow, but having just uninstalled Chrome which took 3 minutes not to find a page both Vivaldi & Firefox found in 3 seconds, the choice is clear

XtremAlRaven

@xtremalraven said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

@quhno

@quhno said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

Lazy load restored tabs.

Already have this, of course. Doesn't help. Both Windows and MacOS.

Also, doesn't explain why creating a new tab (or opening a link in a new tab) takes half a minute.

Ayespy

@xtremalraven But it doesn't. Not on my weakest, oldest, crappiest systems. Are you limited by hardware, or by some other software which interferes?

XtremAlRaven

@ayespy As I wrote, I have other Chromium-based browsers on my machine – and they work fine. So it's probably not proxy/antivirus (also same problem on MacOS and Windows, and I have different non-overlapping set of antivirus software on each system). It also correlates with the number of open tabs.
Now I'm curious. Maybe I can send my debug logs to someone to look into it? I was sure it's a known problem (Vivaldi getting exponentially slow when increasing the number of tabs open).

XtremAlRaven

@ayespy Here's a guy having the same problem: https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/21229/i-like-vivaldi-but-i-m-having-major-problems-and-i-have-major-suggestions/13 - half an hour startup time for 600 tabs.

Ayespy

@xtremalraven This is an erroneous assumption. 3P security software does not recognize Vivaldi as Chromium or as other Chromium-based browsers. Some security software designates it "untrusted" because the authors of that software have not taught it that Vivaldi exists, and is safe.

Ayespy

@xtremalraven 600 tabs is not "a" new tab, or "a" new page. Once all tabs are open, no matter how many there are, it should not take a long time for a new tab or window to establish. Further, at no point did you mention a staggering number of tabs.

An_dz

@ayespy From the last time I've heard from the devs about this I was told there is a problem where the more tabs you have, slower the UI gets. And they don't need to be awake, they can all be hibernated and still slows down.

Still, here it gets a tiny slower when I get around 100 tabs, but nothing jarring, still much less than a second to open a tab, I believe 500 ms, which is enough for me to notice a small lag. And startup is less than 3 s. Even when I had 500 tabs it would still open tabs in less than a second and startup was not more than a minute for sure.

Also the team is working on optimisations and it's already much better than previous versions too.

I guess it would be good to start recording which anti-virus and which hardware those users have to find a common point.

XtremAlRaven

@ayespy said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

@xtremalraven 600 tabs is not "a" new tab, or "a" new page. Once all tabs are open, no matter how many there are, it should not take a long time for a new tab or window to establish.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. What I mean is there are two problems:

When there are a lot of tabs (hundreds) already open, opening each new tab may take a long time (up to half a minute).
If you restart a browser with a lot of tabs, it takes tens of minutes to start.

And I suspect they are somehow related.

Further, at no point did you mention a staggering number of tabs.

I did write "a lot". I also did mention "300 tabs". Which is not that staggering, actually. (I have more in Vivaldi.)

XtremAlRaven

@dleon said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

About many tabs.
Does any browsers actually manage to play well with hundred tabs.

@an_dz said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

which anti-virus and which hardware those users have to find a common point

Ok, I did a little experiment. Downloaded a clean Windows 10 virtual machine ( https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines , evaluation build). Loaded machine into VirtualBox.
Changed VM settings: memory – 4096, CPU cores – 6. (The rest – default.)
Upon loading Windows changed resolution to 1920x1440 (just for convenience).
Installed Vivaldi 1.12.
After first start: set Tabs on right (I like it this way; I hope it doesn't affect performance).
Settings -> disabled "Show Tab Thumbnails". Everything else – default.
Opened 3 browser windows, in each opened 100 different Wikipedia pages. (So, 300 distinct random Wikipedia pages – all IMAX-formatted movies till the beginning of 2017.)
Closed Vivaldi.
Launched Vivaldi again. Time from clicking on Vivaldi icon until browser usable: 20 minutes.

Moreover, if you try to open some link in a new tab (I encourage to try a "new background tab"), the whole interface and page navigation becomes unusable and/or sluggish for 10 seconds.

Sure, I do have a lot going on on the host as well (for example Vivaldi :)) ), but still, 20 minutes is a lot of time.

Ok, same setup, Yandex browser (version 17.9.1.768, based on Chromium 60.0.3112.113) (sure, Yandex can't do side tabs, but I hope it doesn't change much).
Time till restarted browser usable: 30 seconds. (It's 40 times faster.)
And new tabs are created instantly and don't freeze the UI. So it's not a Chromium problem or an antivirus problem. And probably not hardware, because it's a virtual machine.

If you don't want to click 300 times, here's Current Session file (put in %user_browser_dir%\User Data\Default) : https://yadi.sk/d/O3GMFMVz3NgCt6

aach1

@xtremalraven I'm not understanding something. why not use bookmarks rather than tabs? I know this doesn't answer your question (why's it faster on other chromium browsers). But I wouldn't put up with a 30-second startup time on any browser and so I can only assume there's some compelling reason for wanting, persistently, hundreds of tabs open at once. If you did this with bookmarks then you get all the benefits of a side-mounted listing, plus a built-in folder hierarchy all for free.

An_dz

@xtremalraven said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

And probably not hardware, because it's a virtual machine.

That's not how it works. Just because it's a virtual machine you are still using the same hardware, a reason you must install a OS with the same architecture of your real processor for example, at maximum you are not using the same drivers.

But I get the point, it's not anti-virus and there is a general bug in Vivaldi, and I have already confirmed it. The thing is that Vivaldi UI is a webpage and not compiled code, the way it works is far different from other Chromium browsers.

If you don't want to click 300 times, here's Current Session file (put in %user_browser_dir%\User Data\Default) : https://yadi.sk/d/O3GMFMVz3NgCt6

Thanks, I tested it with default settings here too and it took exactly 28 minutes to load. I tried not having tabs visible and it also took lots of time.

This session will do good for the devs to try to fix this. For now you'll have to live with saving sessions or saving bookmarks though.

nlristo

Lack of Sync is still why I can't use this browser. By now I would have thought they could have leveraged using OneDrive/Google Drive/Drop box to facilitate this. I fear by the time they bother to put it in, everyone including myself will have dismissed Vivaldi.

Pesala

@nlristo said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

I fear by the time they bother to put it in, everyone including myself will have dismissed Vivaldi.

Sync is being worked on as a top priority, but if it was never implemented that would not stop me from using Vivaldi.

It's worth noting that none of the several posts requesting various types of sync in the feature requests thread have many votes. That surprises me, but maybe most users don't need it at all, or are happy to export/import bookmarks.

aach1

@pesala There's another interpretation. Many users might be using their different platforms in quite different contexts and therefore to them, sync is just not that big a deal. (I'm an example - I use quite different sets of pinned tabs and bookmarks in my work contexts from what I use on my personal portable, and I'm perfectly happy with it being this way.) Personally I don't understand why a feature which as very few votes is being worked on as "top priority". <personal hobby horse statement deleted>

Steffie

@nlristo said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

by the time they bother to put it in, everyone including myself will have dismissed Vivaldi

Histrionic hyperbole. An asinine and apocryphal absurd allegation.

You? Maybe.
Everyone? Yeah, right, dream on.

JoelYoung

@steffie said in What is stopping you from using V all the time?:

Histrionic hyperbole. An asinine and apocryphal absurd allegation.

Absolutely awesome alliteration!

luetage

@pesala At some point you will realise that not every Vivaldi user is using the feature request thread. These threads are not the holy grail of feature importance, and the team knows this very well.

Of course sync is of utmost importance. Just because you can live without it doesn't mean it's not an integral part of every modern browser, and a must have.

On the contrary, it's more likely that users, who really need sync, have taken a quick look at Vivaldi and dismissed it. Releasing sync is a chance to fight for these users. It makes the browser viable to a broader audience.