Bulgarian UI translation

zmeYpc

@tip1 I don't like things to be unclear or unresolved. I want to move forward and improve everything I do. So now I am going to go back and give answers to six problematic concepts that you mentioned here in your open thread two weeks ago.

I'm not interested in the reasons you gave for stopping communication. I'm not going to comment on them. I have some free time to give my arguments because I don't owe anything to anyone (I write this because I think your claims have no evidence to back them up).
HERE IS A BRIEF SUMMARY OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED:
I tried to understand your arguments about the (9) nine problematic translations you mentioned, but I couldn't find any.
I won't discuss the three terms (notions) I have answered any more unless you can give me serious facts and evidence to contradict the arguments and facts I have given.
To sum up, for the reasons I've given you, and for a bunch of other good reasons that I don't have the space or time to give in translations of all Vivaldi components and Vivaldi documentation, the following three terms in English are conventionally translated in the following ways:

Sync, synced, syncable, syncing, Synchronization = Свер, сверяване, and etc.
Host in the “Stack Tabs by Host” context of use = домакин (I explained to you separately why the stack is a „куп“)
Unseen = Негледани (we are talking about messages whose status „негледани“ differs from „нечетени“)

WHAT I AM ABOUT TO ANSWER:
1. Защо dialog навсякъде се превежда като диалог? Quote:
Диалог is not even having a meaning of a window. In english it has different meaning. https://ibl.bas.bg/rbe/lang/bg/диалог/
2. Защо restart навсякъде се превежда като „повторен пуск“? Quote:
(There's no point in quoting you, because what you wrote isn't proof, it's just an insult to me.)
3. Защо reset навсякъде се превежда като „занули“? Quote:
it is used in the context of electric cables and their grounding. It´s „completely“ out of context here and it´s quite funny actually. https://ibl.bas.bg/rbe/lang/bg/занулявам/
4. Защо Start Page почти навсякъде се превежда като „решетка“ или като „пускова решетка“? Quote:
(I'm not quoting you for the reason I gave in point 2.)
5. Защо toggle в контекста на „button or panel toggle” навсякъде се превежда като „захват“? Quote:
The „hadle“ of a drawer?
6. Защо highlight навсякъде се превежда като „засветен“, „засветяване“, „засветявам“? Quote:
Засветявам is not a real word, just like засивявам. https://ibl.bas.bg/rbe/lang/bg/засветявам/
HERE ARE MY ANSWERS:
Диалог
The РБЛ dictionary is very good, but it doesn't cover all computer concepts or modern technical contexts. It is actually about "GUI dialog", which is also called "dialog box" (notice it is not a window, it is a box). These "dialog boxes" or „кутии с диалог“ are modal and modeless. They are all part of the GUI. What kind of windows are you even talking about? Here, we're talking about an OS, an application, or a process that talks to the user. According to the rules of each different GUI, this was originally done in things called "boxes" (generally speaking, because today these dialogs can even include multimedia, animation, and even video). It's unambiguous to me that the system/application and the user are talking to each other (i.e., the same thing you're quoting to me from РБЛ: 1. Разговор между две лица или две групи от хора.). I wonder if you're reading what you quote to me? The browser shows you a box and waits for your response. It may sound ridiculous, but it's a form of dialogue. In the translations I do for Vivaldi, it would be called диалог. Or do you have a different opinion? If this was not a "dialogue box" („кутия с диалог“) in your opinion, but something else, how would you have translated it? Better not to know, I ask rhetorically.
Повторен пуск
The decision to translate the start and restart forms as „пускане“, „пускам" and „пуск“ was an intentional choice, and it has been shown that this was the right decision. The reason is simple: the words (their literal calques) have no sound connotations in Bulgarian. "Start" and "restart" have no meaning in Bulgarian. The advantage is that I can use the meaning connotations of the verb „пускам“ and all its forms in many contexts. I'm not going to change this, and I'm not discussing it.
Занули
The truth is that it is more correct to use „обнули“. Background: the word "reset" in English has only been in use very recently. Here's some information from my reliable paper source:
RESET, … [the] meaning "cause a device to return to a former condition" is from 1847; the intransitive sense of "return to an initial state" is from 1897.
I was looking for a short verb form that would express this return to the original state. I think with „нулирам“ I found it. When you say the full phrase in Bulgarian, it's "обнуляване на системата", which is even more precise but also a bit clumsy. I think it's all clear. What you pointed out is not related to electricity. Also, the lack of an article in РБЛ doesn't mean anything yet. Have you heard of „нулиране на резултати“ from an experiment, from exams or haven't you? Here's what GOOGLE says in plain Bulgarian:
=> https://support.google.com/android/answer/6088915?hl=bg
I suggest you look up the sentence: „Можете да нулирате повечето телефони от приложението „Настройки“.“
I'LL STOP HERE, AS THIS POST IS GETTING LONG. I will now carry on with the other three problematic translations (points 4, 5 and 6).

Afterword

I see Wikipedia as a neutral source for computer concepts and technical terms. I can quote printed sources from TU Sofia, but I don't think it's appropriate for a „гост-домакин“ because this is an ABC concept in informatics.
Everyone has some kind of degree. I congratulate you on yours. But as some great Bulgarian translator who praised me and hooted me, and then told me: „Момче, учи български език, защото за да преведеш нещо добре трябва да го знаеш в съвършенство и по-добре от всеки чужд [език]!“ I will not mention names of those great poets and translators (I have known many since my childhood and later had many conversations with them).

Take care and good luck!

tip1

@zmeYpc Mark as closed. I'm currently working in 131 Institute K. A. Timiryazev (oh, wow, a Russian name) and I just showed the entire conversation to all teachers and we all agreed that the translation is generally bad and it's just using the Russian language as a reference without comparing it to the modern Bulgarian language that we all speak. From 120 teachers that I asked, only 1 had a clue what Vivaldi's functions actually do, because of the outdated and Russian-like translation. The students from 12 grade said that they never heard of Vivaldi, so I showed them the browser. They asked me why is my browser in another Slavic language, so I had to explain every single thing you wrote here, even directly projecting the conversation on the multimedia. The students also confirmed that this translation is not actual and they will never use the browser. GUESS WHY? (Keep the answer for yourself). If this is not enough feedback for you, then .....

It doesn't really matter. Vivaldi is way behind others and with this attitude, it will remain on the bottom for good. End of story.

DoctorG

@tip1 Bad to read about a outdated bulgarian translation.

barbudo2005

Use Linguist extension:

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/linguist-web-pages-transl/gbefmodhlophhakmoecijeppjblibmie

DoctorG

@barbudo2005 As i understand Startposter talks in post #1 about insufficient UI translation into Bulgarian.

Shpankov

@tip1 , @zmeYpc Hi guys! It's so sad to see this discussion here. Especially, because you both love your language. Bulgarian language is quite old and complicate some time - even more complicate than Russian And, of course, always will be many ways to use it for translation.

I think, better to discuss this translation in more calm manner. It will be better than accuse each other of mistakes. We all make mistakes in our life, and in translations too. UI translation have some speciality, but, of course, we are trying to have it as good as possible.

Hope, you can find the ways for finding the best decision. Just think not about ourselves, but about users who will use this translation. I'm sure, it will be much better for all of us and for our users.

@zmeYpc I think, if some suggestions are reasonable - will be good to improve translation. Maybe just have a deeper look to the reported issues. Without personal animosity.

@tip1 We are trying to do the best, and our translators works many years as a volunteers. It's not good to devalue their work - I'm sure, Bulgarian translation is not so bad as you said. Otherwise we would have a lot of complaints from our Bulgarian users, but we have not.

So, guys, please, help to make Vivaldi better
Rough discussions will not help in this task

zmeYpc

@tip1
It is Friday night, for Christ's sake. Are you trying to insult me?
No, I am not going to follow you (I am not marking anything). I am trying to understand your evidence, if you have any. I will answer all 9 points as I wrote above.

I don't know where this institute K.A. Timiryazev is (in which country). I and I am not against Russians. As I am not against any nation, any culture.

Okay, we will come back to your survey, but later. Do you agree with me?

I completely disagree with you that my Vivaldi translations are similar to the Russian ones! (A new twist in your mind, or what? You first said they were all AI-based, haha)

(One more false statement you've made!) (You just don't stop making more stuff against instead of starting to cooperate with good linguistic and technical reasoinings on the 9 (nine) problematic translations you've reported).

I'm fluent in Russian, but I don't know the translators who are doinG the Russian translations of Vivaldi. If you love Bulgarian, you love all the Slavic languages. And I love to help the other Vivaldi translators too.

Don't interfere here with people I don't know and have never heard of, okay?
Give me your facts and arguments on the 9 (pointS) you raise first!

Even if I'm busy tonight, write me a PM, send me your email, I'll send you mine. Please collect all the feedback you have, summarise the flow and send a short report to me. I will make sure to answer every feedback (that has strong linguistic arguments!)

Vivaldi is important. At least for me and the friends I know. I know some ordinary people who use it. And they all use it in Bulgarian language.

I'm sure you're over the top with your false predictions about Bulgarian translations of Vivaldi.
2 EDITS: I fixed 2 typos.

barbudo2005

@DoctorG

Sorry, my fault but the title was not explicit:

DoctorG

@barbudo2005 I pinged a mod to enhance title.

tip1

@zmeYpc Край на дискусията. Няма никакъв смисъл. Shpankov изглежда разумен и добър човек, който е отворен към различни подходи, но ти не си. Нека си остане така преводът. Пазарният дял на Вивалди в България е под 1 %, което базирано на статистиките е около 5-10 хиляди души. Жалко, браузърът е хубав, но не може да се наложи. Според мен, една от основните причини е остарелият превод, който просто няма място в модерните времена. Преводът трябва да отговаря на времето, в което се чете, затова преиздават книгите и променят основния текст многократно през годините, но запазват оригиналния смисъл, естествено. Мен ме загубихте като потребител, както и моите колеги, както и моите ученици, което прави грубо около 300 души, които не биха го използвали. Желанието ми е да помогна да се популяризира браузърът, но ...

Щом индивидуалните постижения са по-важни от общата цел (да се харесва от всички и да се разбира от всички), то няма какво да се направи повече. Мога да поискам от много хора да напишат мнението си тук и да получите същата обратна връзка, но щом не можете да чуете един, няма да чуете и триста.

П.П. Не желая да ме следваш. А, 131-во е доста известно училище в България. Един българин щеше да го знае това, но нали не е в Уикипедия.....

Весели Великденски празници на всички!

Shpankov

@tip1 Frankly, you set the tone for the discussion with your first comment. It was not very polite and to some extent insulting to a translator who has been doing his job for many years without a single complaint. Frankly, if I had received such a comment about my translation, I would have felt disrespected too.

You, as a teacher (by the way, I am also a teacher by education), could have done more positively for the browser, because it interested you in some way, since you installed it? You could have offered to help make the browser better. As a hypothetical idea, since you showed the browser to your students - maybe it would be more interesting and useful for them to try to make their own translation? This is a real project, with real results, and not just some boring homework. Here, students will get not only an interesting task, but also real experience of adult life. This is worth a lot.

We can make this translation as a second version of Bulgarian, and users will be able to choose which one they like. And your students will be able to gain experience in how software is translated - there are a lot of pitfalls, I assure you! Trust my more than 20 years of translation experience.

We are very open to all ideas. And if we can follow the wishes of users - we always try to do so. In fact, the vast majority of functions in the browser appeared thanks to our users - at their requests.

You know, the world is becoming a better place not because someone will notice its imperfections and proudly turn away. No, the world is made better by people who are ready to change what they think is wrong or not good enough. I myself started by translating the Opera Presto browser, because I thought that I could do it better than an official translator. And many years passed before I even approached a professional level - but I still receive messages about errors and inaccuracies in the translation. So perfection is unattainable, but you should always strive for it.

I hope you can change your attitude a little towards both the Bulgarian translation and the Vivaldi browser.

Happy holidays!