Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi

DerSchlingel

It simply seems that even Vivaldi has to open some new streams of revenue, as people who develop it are actually want to make a living from it.
Pre-installed speed dials and contracts with search engines alone aren‘t doing the Job.
Also actively asking for donations as they‘ve begun to do lately wouldn‘t mean a sustainable business model. So they have to do some partnering, right? Every browser that‘s not held by a big corpo does. Mozilla does, Opera does. As long as they do it without breaking their own principles we shouldn‘t complain, as the browser comes without any cost.

Nekomajin

@DerSchlingel
The problem is that it breaks their own principles. Personally I can live with some advertisement in the browser but let me choose before they add anything from a third-party source.

DerSchlingel

@Nekomajin I think that’s a far stretched that this is a grand move against big tech. Sounds very pathetic in my ears. Vivaldi „partnering“ with Proton doesn’t change hardly anything. It’s only an advertisement in itself.
Maybe being king of customization and a virgin when it comes to privacy isn’t profitable in the long run. And Vivaldi users also seem to be a very aspiring folk anyway. Hard to feed them all.

Lasarev

Антивирус Касперского блокирует "Протон", как шпионскую программу! И заодно и Вивальди тоже!

DoctorG

@Lasarev Seems Kaspersky is doing wrong. Or wants to censor you.

ThePfromtheO

@TyrionTargaryen Weird that you didn't know what to do from the first...

Catweazle

@DerSchlingel, I remember, Vivaldi began to accept donations only after multiple requests of the users to accept it, some years ago

Stardust

I think the better approach would be to create a new category of recommended extensions on Extensions Vivaldi page and put Proton VPN there with a button to install it. (Also uBO extension)

That what Firefox has.

And not that "install VPN button" on the Address Bar that suddenly appears out of nowhere and automatically installs something without any user confirmation when you click on it.

PS: I don't like when random buttons appear on Address Bar like that Share Vivaldi button.

barbudo2005

We are already on chapter 308 of this “Netflix” series. Incredibly successful.

And it continues.

yngve

@Gort said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

the extension definitely installs when you click on the toolbar icon, not when logging in.

Yes, because:

Clicking the VPN icon is considered a positive indication that you actively want to activate/enable the VPN feature. That includes installing the extension (and keep in mind that the VPN logo is in the same area as Extension logos are placed, so it should be a reasonable indication that you are about to access an extension, also the tooltip says "Proton VPN". If you don't know what it is, maybe investigate a bit before clicking?).

It does not get used if you do not actually enable it. Nothing gets handed over unless you choose to actually do so. You can always uninstall the extension if you decide not to use it, but you can also just ignore it and it will do nothing.

Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.

So what you and some others seem to want is a dialog saying "Do you REALLY want to install Proton VPN" if it hasn't already been installed, at which point I suspect that a number of users who know what is going on will file bug reports asking us to "remove that unnecessary dialog".

You may also look at this Vivaldi Social post https://social.vivaldi.net/@ruario/114235282044540368

denizgb

Great news, thanks Vivaldi team

AllanH

@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.

As I posted, https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/823395, the Proton account used my recovery email (Yahoo) from my Profile information, not my Vivaldi email. Is that the way it should have worked?

olli

@AllanH said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.

As I posted, https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/823395, the Proton account used my recovery email (Yahoo) from my Profile information, not my Vivaldi email. Is that the way it should have worked?

That is correct. Not all vivaldi members has vivaldi.net e-mail address

ThePfromtheO

@JyuSensei
I agree with you; it would be better if workspaces had their own speed dials, but better to be able to choose if you want the same Speed Dial for all or different ones for each one. Also, I think that being able to sync workspaces (I mean, to have them already in your browser for every install, not the way they work now) would be an important feature too.
I don't get the point of the Dashboard. It's very good for me, although I would like the widgets to be resizable after the user's will.
Unfortunately, I can't say anything about Mail, although I would love to try it. I use Proton Mail, which is not available for an email client without Proton Bridge.
Yeah, Calendar would be better to be able to sync on its own. But I use Proton Calendar, which uses another kind of encryption, so not available on V.
New Adress bar is pretty good for me, please tell me what the issues are, or provide me some links to forum posts about that.
Yeah, I have to admit, Content blocker is not great. But privacy is not their only goal, like Brave. Vivaldi wants to create a set of tools for popular actions on the Internet. And you can't focus on more things at the same time, right? This is especially true for a relatively small company like Vivaldi Technologies. So, you can install various extensions to achieve more privacy or go to Brave if you really want that high degree of privacy. But keep in mind what you will lose.
In the end, what's your problem with Proton VPN? It's pretty good for me. My opinion.

Gort

@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

@Gort said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

the extension definitely installs when you click on the toolbar icon, not when logging in.

Yes, because:

Clicking the VPN icon is considered a positive indication that you actively want to activate/enable the VPN feature. That includes installing the extension (and keep in mind that the VPN logo is in the same area as Extension logos are placed, so it should be a reasonable indication that you are about to access an extension, also the tooltip says "Proton VPN". If you don't know what it is, maybe investigate a bit before clicking?).

Personally, I have no real issue with the inclusion of Proton's VPN extension (I actually use Proton VPN), as I mentioned in my initial post on this thread (actually, it might have been my second post). The post you're quoting was mine correcting a poster who claimed that the extension was only installed when logging into the VPN service, which clearly wasn't the case, as I showed.

As for your patronising "maybe investigate a bit more" point, plenty of users of this browser aren't technically aware as many of others. Some might well have installed Vivaldi due to the advice of more savvy users of the browser. Yeah, I know (and knew before clicking) what was happening, but not everyone who uses the browser will. A simple dialogue would have helped highlight the issue and caused a little bit less consternation. But I suppose the need to rush it out came before such considerations...

It does not get used if you do not actually enable it. Nothing gets handed over unless you choose to actually do so. You can always uninstall the extension if you decide not to use it, but you can also just ignore it and it will do nothing.

Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.

So what you and some others seem to want is a dialog saying "Do you REALLY want to install Proton VPN" if it hasn't already been installed, at which point I suspect that a number of users who know what is going on will file bug reports asking us to "remove that unnecessary dialog".

A simple one-time dialogue when clicking or on first use of the browser was all that was needed. I bet less would be moaning if that was done than by your claim. Just smells of rushing it out to me.

Don't get me wrong, I welcome its inclusion, but it could have been handled better.

gabrielwoj

@yngve said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

@Gort said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

the extension definitely installs when you click on the toolbar icon, not when logging in.

Yes, because:

Clicking the VPN icon is considered a positive indication that you actively want to activate/enable the VPN feature. That includes installing the extension (and keep in mind that the VPN logo is in the same area as Extension logos are placed, so it should be a reasonable indication that you are about to access an extension, also the tooltip says "Proton VPN". If you don't know what it is, maybe investigate a bit before clicking?).

It does not get used if you do not actually enable it. Nothing gets handed over unless you choose to actually do so. You can always uninstall the extension if you decide not to use it, but you can also just ignore it and it will do nothing.

Login can only be done through the Proton VPN extension, after it has been installed (since the process needs to access Proton's account servers using info only available in the extension), with two options: Login via your Vivaldi.net account, or by logging in using an existing account.

So what you and some others seem to want is a dialog saying "Do you REALLY want to install Proton VPN" if it hasn't already been installed, at which point I suspect that a number of users who know what is going on will file bug reports asking us to "remove that unnecessary dialog".

You may also look at this Vivaldi Social post https://social.vivaldi.net/@ruario/114235282044540368

I have to disagree with your point in regards to the placement of the Proton VPN, and some of the takes in regards about investigation. First things off, the "Share Vivaldi" icon is ALSO located near the extensions area, and yet, it's not an extension. Secondly, there can be users out there with no extensions at all, which may believe the VPN button is a new function, and not a one-way-click to install the extension.

"Investigating" can be someone clicking on the icon, to know exactly what it is. I do not agree that the extension should be installed with a simple click. When you install an extension from the Chrome Web Store, it tells you the types of things the extension can do / not do, what types of permission it uses, and so on. Depending on the reputation of the extension / their authors, these types of permissions can be obtained EVEN if it's not logged in to some service, as it's in the case here, that seems to only communicate after logging in.

And, even if the extension is just there installed, without any use, it's consuming unnecessary memory space. But more importantly, extensions get updates automatically without user-input. How can I be sure that Proton will keep their beliefs and stances in the future? Remember Stylish, and how one update that people were initially unaware of started to collect Internet history of users without their knowledge?

Again, this could be applied here too. I'm not doubting anyone's side, Vivaldi's or Proton's, but it's a thing that can happen, even more so for an extension that will be "resting" there for those not interested and have no idea that the extension is installed on their browsers. The Reviews page for the extension itself on the Web Store are already have been getting low-ratings from users who were unaware of the extension being installed.

It's not really a matter of not using it if it's not logged in, but more as an intrusion that the user had no idea that it would be installed without they knowing. No information about its installation anywhere, and no information about what permissions it uses upon clicking it (I did not click it, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong). And for my point of view, the risks you can have with some random extension enabled and who knows what can happen in a few years by.

I do use third-party extensions and I understand the risks when doing so, but this was ultimately my choice. "Clicking" the VPN button does not mean the user wants to install it, and being placed close to the extensions is really not a valid point, especially since Vivaldi itself is a highly-customizable browser and who knows where else the button could be depending on the user's layout?

I believe this can still be resolved with a new simple update, that talks about the VPN itself upon clicking it but doesn't actually install before the user actually click some sort of "YES" prompt or whatever. As for how it's right now, it does feel forced and very intrusive, and it's not something I'm a fan of.

JyuSensei

@ThePfromtheO said in Privacy Without Compromise: Proton VPN is Now Built Into Vivaldi:

In the end, what's your problem with Proton VPN? It's pretty good for me. My opinion.

I wanted to access some geoblocked sites. And proton sends me to the fastest server but incorrect country, but I wouldn't mind going to a slower if it meant it is in the correct country.

It is highly situational, in very specific time frames, and infrequently enough that paying for a vpn is just wasted money. And accessing those sites is very much a "nice to get in" rather than "must get in", so.. not really useful for me.

I tried proton because from the free offerings, it seems the less... sketchy.

As for the address bar, a couple of my grievances with it are fixed in the snapshot, (I don't use the snapshot). And it is going to take a while since they get into stable. But now I don't really find myself going back to using the address bar in any other way than to show... the address.

DS2902

The server is very fast. This is good.

Nekomajin

@yngve

Clicking the VPN icon is considered a positive indication that you actively want to activate/enable the VPN feature.

It took decades industrywise to educate people to expect some kind of confirmation/warning prompt with an INSTALL button. So no, clicking on anything, which does not have a clear install/add/download/etc label can not be considered as a positive indicator.

and keep in mind that the VPN logo is in the same area as Extension logos are placed, so it should be a reasonable indication that you are about to access an extension, also the tooltip says "Proton VPN".

And it uses the Vivaldi button style instead of being a colorful and more detailed icon like most of the extensions have nowadays.

If you don't know what it is, maybe investigate a bit before clicking?

Clicking on it must be considered as an intent to investigate.

By the way, I don't think it's right to use that tone against your users.

It does not get used if you do not actually enable it. Nothing gets handed over unless you choose to actually do so. You can always uninstall the extension if you decide not to use it, but you can also just ignore it and it will do nothing.

This is exactly what people expect to see in a confirmation prompt and not on the nth page of a forum thread.

So what you and some others seem to want is a dialog saying "Do you REALLY want to install Proton VPN" if it hasn't already been installed, at which point I suspect that a number of users who know what is going on will file bug reports asking us to "remove that unnecessary dialog".

So you say that it would be an impossible task to check wheter the extension has already been installed or not and show the prompt accordingly? Come on...

Once again, I support the move to include a basic VPN in the browser. Either your own or one of a trusted partner. I am totally fine with it, especially Proton. But it should not be done like this. An extension for a browser is like an app for an OS. You should not install anything without clearly stating what you want to do and providing an option to cancel.

DS2902

@lasarev: не удивительно, касперский лёг под правительство, это та еще помойка. Ради безопасности своего компьютера, касперский лучше вообще удалить.