Can we get consistent keyboard shortcuts please??
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All I want is basic keyboard shortcuts that aren't flaky. That work all the time. You know, like every other modern program has.
Just in the last hour I've had the following problems:
- toggle dev tools shortcut works, until you focus on dev tools pane (you know, to actually do something). Then you can't close panel with shortcut anymore.
- Open task manager with shift-esc. Cool. Now I'm ready to close it. Command-w and... nothing. It's a window, but no, it's not a window.
- Switch to a new tab and hit page down to scroll the page. Instead my tab bar scrolls. Why in god's name would anyone ever page-down the tab bar?? Control elements should never steal focus from content. Command-w always works regardless of where focus is (except in task manager apparently).
So how about keyboard shortcuts that consistently work? Is that too much to ask?
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@easyme said in Can we get consistent keyboard shortcuts please??:
Is that too much to ask?
Yes, because many shortcuts are context-sensitive.
- Repeating the shortcut will undock the developer tools window, then dock it again, then close it. I am not sure if it is fixable or not, but it is a known issue.
- Task Manager does close with Ctrl+W. What are you doing differently to me?
- Next/Previous tab shortcuts require the Ctrl key modifier to be held down.
*Bottom Line: Keyboard shortcuts can be edited to suit your workflow, but it may take some effort to get them to be consistent. Mouse Gestures are better for some commands.
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@Pesala thanks for replying.
- good to know dev tool issue is known. surprised that one can slip through into a release; it should be a showstopper bug for any web developers on the team.
- my dev tools doesn't dock and undock like you say. for me, with dev tools docked at bottom (separate window destroys my workflow), the toggle key command does nothing once dev tools have focus. are you talking about Toggle Dev Tools shortcut or something else? I'm using Toggle Dev Tools. tried the Dev Tools shortcut but it doesn't close panel ever, no matter what has focus.
- lol no idea why yours works. I'm on mac. Task Manager doesn't close with command-w on mac. Every other window/tab does. Task Manager ignores it. The File menu flashes blue when I press command-w but nothing happens.
- I'm not trying to switch tabs. I'm trying to scroll the page. Hit page down by itself, no mod keys, and web page content should scroll down. I know ctrl-page down switches tabs; that one works fine. It's naked page-down that's the problem.
What do you mean by "it may take some effort to get them [keyboard shortcuts] to be consistent"? Is there something I should be doing to make my keyboard shortcuts more consistent?
Unfortunately mouse gestures are never better for me. It's keyboard or die tryin.
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@easyme said in Can we get consistent keyboard shortcuts please??:
web developers
You're probably new around here. They use chrome anyway, Vivaldi dev tools barely work but not enough for serious web devs, deal with it, it's not of any priority to make it work
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@iAN-CooG fair enough. it's not just dev tools though. keyboard shortcuts are wonky throughout vivaldi.
also to be fair, dev tools aren't just for developing web sites. for me dev tools are essential for browsing any website, given the dreadful state of web UI's these days. blockers help but only so much.
popups, interstitials, banners, sticky headers, sidebars, chat buttons... so much useless crap you can't even see page content.it's a constant war of attention. i terminate attention grabbers with extreme prejudice.
vivaldi devs don't care, that's fine. just explaining that dev tools have other uses.
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@easyme, I see none of these ads and garbage on the websites you mention using only Vivaldi's ad/trackerblocker. I don't even see these annoying cookie advices or these anti-adblock warnings.
All this only depends on the filters that you add in the settings of the adblocker. I hardly ever use the dev tools, only occasionally to see the sources of an page element or something like that. -
@Catweazle consider yourself lucky. For the sake of discussion, I'll explain my reasons. I don't expect others to agree or care. But maybe seeing another perspective will improve understanding.
Some of that garbage is right here on this very page. See that blue sticky bar at the top? The one that says Home, Categories, ....
- It's functionally useless. Eats precious vertical space while adding nothing of value. If I want those functions then it's trivial to hit home key to return to top of page and access Home, Unread, etc. absolutely no point for it to stalk me down the page.
- what's worse, having it there breaks the page. Press page down to scroll the content. The first two lines that were off screen below the page are now at the top of the page, hidden by the blue bar. So it actively interferes with page navigation.
The web is absolutely littered with crap like this. Horrible UI design that breaks the workflow with useless distractions.
I know most people don't care. "Oh i'll just scroll with mouse wheel". Good for them, enjoy. It's not how I do things. Browser is supposed to conform to the user, not vice versa. Vivaldi helps but it doesn't protect from thoughtless web designers, which is most of them.
Another example: the piece of junk in bottom right (screenshot below). It's
div.dropupin page source. What purpose does it serve? Click for top/bottom of page - home/end keys already do that. Click to go to my next post - um why? Search and post history are much better ways to find something I posted.That one's not so bad. At least it's small and doesn't get in the way. Other websites aren't so kind. Big buttons in the corner that actually block content.
If some people like the blue sticky header bar, that's fine. God bless them. But since there's no option to turn it off, I have to take matters into my own hands. Dev tools, stylus, terminated.
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@easyme, if you are referring to the own design that each website has, it is convenient to contact the corresponding webmasters who designed it and not expect Vivaldi to change the design of the page for them.
Vivaldi can block ads, trackers and even change the colors of the page, even use the Reader Mode if the page admit it, but hardly the design nor specific functions of it.
Ads are other things -
@Catweazle Reread what I said. I don't expect Vivaldi to change any sites. I don't expect website designers to change their sites. Contacting web designers is a fool's errand.
All I expect Vivaldi to do is provide a functional web browser with working dev tools. From there, I have everything I need to fix bad web designs on my own.
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My CSS style of the Vivaldi Forum has 1800 lines and I have not had any problem locating the selectors with Dev tools.
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@barbudo2005
Great. I can locate the selectors fine too.What I can't do is close the dev tools easily. Because keyboard shortcuts don't work once dev tools has focus.
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One question: Do you locate all selectors (including the difficult ones) and copy them using the keyboard or the mouse?
Be a little more forgiving and occupy the close button.
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@barbudo2005 I use the right tool for the job. Mousing to an arbitrary tiny X way off to the side (but not on the infinite edge) over and over is hugely wasteful according to Fitts' law.
Not to mention some of us have physical difficulties with mousing. Try not telling others how to use their devices according to your habits and tastes, thank you.
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Said:
I use the right tool for the job.
The question was very simple. Answer it.
Do you locate all selectors (including the difficult ones) and copy them using the keyboard or the mouse?
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@barbudo2005 asked and answered. now you're just badgering the witness.
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Said:
I use the right tool for the job.
What is important to know is what is the "right tool".
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@barbudo2005 highlighting rendered boundary boxes to find the containing page element for an arbitrary item, which can be many lines / levels away in source / dom tree - usually mouse is the right tool
performing a fixed function on a panel with a fiddly little x button way over on the side, but not on the edge where it would benefit from Fitt's law - that has keyboard written all over it.
Question for you - when you copy and paste text, do you mouse up to Edit menu -> Copy, Edit -> Paste? or do you ctrl-c ctrl-v?
Those were trick questions. It doesn't matter one whit what you do. Some people use one, some use the other. Both should work or the program is fundamentally flawed and violates UI principles. Your disagreement is not with me; take it up with these guys.
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Said:
…...usually mouse is the right tool.
I imagined it or maybe I should say I feared it.
Said:
Question for you - when you copy and paste text, do you mouse up to Edit menu -> Copy, Edit -> Paste? or do you ctrl-c ctrl-v?
Neither of the two. I use the app AutoclipX to auto-copy a text that has been marked.
For paste, context menu Paste or 4° button of mouse.
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@barbudo2005 said in Can we get consistent keyboard shortcuts please??:
I use the app AutoclipX to auto-copy a text that has been marked.
For paste, context menu Paste or 4° button of mouse.
That feature's been standard since forever on unix / linux. Did that on SGI machines in the 90s. Windows is catching up, only 25 years behind.
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AutoclipX is abandoned since 2015. Windos 10 has an inbuild Clipboard Manager, because of this most Clipboard Manager for Windows are discontinued.
