KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files

edwardp

@ybjrepnfr I downloaded the KDE neon Testing image. It's also based on Ubuntu Jammy, but has what I will call a pre-alpha of an upcoming version of KDE Frameworks. As the KDE neon packages are also built on Jammy, if I edited sources.list to pull in the current-release Ubuntu packages, KDE probably would not work afterwards.

I am also trying out Fedora Rawhide. Stable so far.

I also looked at the openSUSE Tumbleweed image, but the installer wanted to install it to the internal HDD by default (big no-no, since Debian is there) and it did not provide an obvious option (no pull-down list) to select another drive (as installers like Anaconda and Calamares offer), so I didn't do anything further with it.

ybjrepnfr

@edwardp i have failed to persuade numerous peeps of this simple reality over the years, & won't be surprised if i continue to fail [horse, water, lead, drink]. it's just a simple reality... nobody using any point-release [often misleadingly called "stable" release] distro has any logical right to expect that a fast-moving desktop environment like kde plasma will work correctly for them, over time. for such user-cases, rolling-release distros are mandatory.

that said, the plasma devs are seriously considering rescheduling plasma6 release cycles to become only twice a year, to coordinate them with point-release distro cycles. if this large change does occur, my above-mentioned historical truth will likely become irrelevant.

it's >6 years since i last ran opensuse tumbleweed, which has one of the best, most granular, user finessable graphical installers around, in ruby. i'd be amazed if it seriously cannot let users install into a multi-boot environment, via selecting manual not auto partitioning.

npro

Just.Use.True.Rolling.Distros

(or point releases like Kubuntu (with backports) & Fedora which also move pretty fast)

Again: Development branches of distros and development testbeds for KDE (= KDE Neon) are not meant to be stable nor can they be baptized "rolling", they are there for the development of the next stable version. This includes Fedora Rawhide, Debian Sid, OpenSUSE Factory, OpenMandriva Cooker, et .al. They brake sooner or later for various reasons and the misbehaviours @ybjrepnfr mentioned are too many and too real for every one of those.

ybjrepnfr

@npro said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

the misbehaviours @ybjrepnfr mentioned are too many and too real for every one of those

indeed, & [for the benefit of others reading this, not @npro who already well knows all this stuff] what makes it even worse is that subsequent troubleshooting of these misbehaving plasmas [for reasons which are not their fault], is usually a total pita nightmare, coz many of the "standard" plasma diagnostic techniques won't work properly, given they're predicated on the full installation being up to date, not just some of the packages. yet so many peeps still wanna defiantly stick with their old point-release systems, but also "demand" that their plasma works properly. imo it's quite obtuse & obstinate.

i'll be forever grateful for mint 13 --> 16 --> 17 --> 18, coz it was my intro to both linux and plasma. that said, it was a pretty amazing day when i finally decided to stick my toes in the rolling waters, via os tw as mentioned, whose plasma experience was just so very superior to anything i had with any buntu-based plasmas.

tl;dr: to best use a rolling d/e, use a rolling distro.

edwardp

@ybjrepnfr

i'll be forever grateful for mint 13 --> 16 --> 17 --> 18, coz it was my intro to both linux and plasma. that said, it was a pretty amazing day when i finally decided to stick my toes in the rolling waters, via os tw as mentioned, whose plasma experience was just so very superior to anything i had with any buntu-based plasmas.

tl;dr: to best use a rolling d/e, use a rolling distro.

The good news, is that we can agree to respectfully disagree.

I have attempted to use 'rolling' distributions in the past (more than one) and personally found the support for a brand new user, non-existent. I have not looked at those distributions since.

I will say that I have been using Linux for 20 years now, the last ~10 years exclusively and people I know who have used Linux longer than I have, including software developers, have told me to stick with the larger distributions, specifically Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu.

npro

@edwardp said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

I have been using Linux for 20 years now

This is very hard to believe for someone who makes his *distrohop nowadays and learning stuff alongside just now, uses development branches almost like in a "fetish-way" in order to roll? and writes things down like he is been using those for years (see Frameworks 5.106 topic and others).

Judging by the above and what you write about Mint ('s stability and support obviously) and non-existent support to brand-new users in rolling distros, I'd say it looks like you were using only Debian in a timespan of 20 years only occasionally and superficially. Aside from the fact that by being a 20 year old Linux user you wouldn't need it, because you would have gained some experience in all those years to see that the differences in reality are really minor between all GNU/Linux distros who adhere to the FHS, and previously to the LSB (which included it).

And frankly, a number doesn't say anything. I was told some time ago about a (now pretty known) youtuber who became very proficient in Linux by starting with it just 4 years ago. (Chris Titus)

*(what is) Debian sid -> OpenMandriva ROME -> Debian testing -> Fedora Rawhide -> KDE Neon User, KDE Neon Testing)

LocutusOfBorg

@ybjrepnfr said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

i mean no disrespect, but imo debian stable for sure, testing too, & even sid, are not the right distro choices for ardent plasma fans. the plasma devs move much much faster than the debian devs, by deliberate design intent of both parties [fundamentally different ethos]. there are much more suitable distros available that better keep up with plasma.

Both Fedora and Debian are dinosaurs truly meant for anything but the Plasma desktop. Arch and Arch based distros are the way to go.

LocutusOfBorg

@edwardp said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

@LocutusOfBorg Both of my desktops have older AMD Radeon GPU's.
Under X11, this required a file to be placed in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d to turn on the TearFree option in the ATI driver, so the web browsers would not display screen tearing when pages are scrolled.
Under Wayland, the file is not required.

Not to hijack the thread, but what's this about having to add files under x11? I'm about to swap out a nVidia 1650 for a Radeon RX 6600 and put in a new M.2. Before I do so and Install my OS I'd like all info I can get. Thanks

npro

@LocutusOfBorg said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

Both Fedora and Debian are dinosaurs

hmmm

edwardp

@LocutusOfBorg I have older Radeon GPU's in my desktops and when using browsers, notably anything Chromium-based, there was screen-tearing when scrolling up and down web pages, when I previously used X11.

Placing a file named 20-radeon.conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d with the following in it:

Section "Device"
        Identifier      "AMD Graphics"
        Driver          "ati"
        Option          "TearFree" "true"
EndSection

eliminated the screen tearing. If the AMD card you have is recent and you see screen tearing, the same file should work, but replace 'ati' with 'amdgpu'.

ybjrepnfr

@LocutusOfBorg said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

Both Fedora and Debian are dinosaurs truly meant for anything but the Plasma desktop. Arch and Arch based distros are the way to go

arch & archies ofc provide a superb plasma UX. though i like it less than arch, opensuse tumbleweed also used* to give an excellent plasma UX. if someone was holding a loaded herring to my head to force me to have to use a point-release distro instead, i'd pick fedora over anything else of that ilk... has less kde/plasma/frameworks/gear currency than arch/os-tw ofc, but otoh much better than debian/buntus.

* hopefully it still does, but my last serious usage of tw is now >6yrs ago, so i dunno if plasma remains a first-class citizen there now as it used to, back in the day.

ot:
imo, debian, buntus are prolly good [enough] distros to use for glacial d/e's like xfce, mate, cinnamon, AND also for users happy to use only OLD pkg versions of apps. otherwise, for peeps wanting plasma, & reliable support for modern app versions [eg, vivaldi-snapshot], they're a pretty silly choice. otoh, fedora is a much better choice than those others, if for some reason peeps still refuse to use rollers.

edwardp

@LocutusOfBorg said in KDE Plasma 6 to ship with floating panel and double-click to open apps/files:

Both Fedora and Debian are dinosaurs truly meant for anything but the Plasma desktop. Arch and Arch based distros are the way to go.

I gave up on Fedora Rawhide, as all of the currently-supplied 6.4 kernels (both git and otherwise) stood a 50/50 chance of booting up on this hardware. Either it did, or it didn't. Fedora 38 has been stable.

KDE Plasma ~~on Debian Sid (unstable) and Testing~~ has actually been quite stable and reliable.

I was unable to get Kubuntu LTS installed to an external SSD without it also wanting to put a swap partition on the internal HDD (with Debian Sid already installed on it and with its own swap partition), but it managed to install to a SanDisk Cruzer Glide thumb drive without wanting to install that separate swap partition. I do not know how long it will last, installed to the thumb drive, as it has a (unknown to me) finite number of read and write cycles.

~~I eventually had some issues with KDE neon, so I stopped using it.~~