Good riddance, Internet Explorer!
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@potmeklecbohdan said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
@Pathduck said:
nearly
And is getting nearer with every second… It’s gonna be hard to stop them (& even harder to stop the next almost-winner).
Yes but using a chromium based browser is not helping either..vivaldi,brave and all other chromium based browsers are just feeding the google monster but merely using a different sauce.
My concern is if firefox goes under and then google will have full control,however google will wish to keep firefox alive as it's lapdog so as to avoid any anti-trust legislation.
rather ironic really as firefox would of been king for a while if not for internet explorer.But then again criticising IE here is rather out of context as at that time there were not really any real contenders and best browser is subjective on personal experience.
Like i have said condemning google here is quite contradictory when using a chromium based browser.Any serious contention to google chrome would have to either create a complete new engine or a larger company than mozilla or a possible merge to vamp up firefox.
If percentages are anything to go by then chrome will not be equalled or topped but merely controlled so that we have an "illusion" of choice which google gives you at the moment..if google really wanted to eat the whole lot it would prevent chromium based browsers from even existing and making their chromium project exclusively theirs..they are just feeding us with the illusion of choice and openness..
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Presto is still way ahead of Chromium on low RAM usage. I remember helping to test browser.js for Opera (including Hotmail & when Google sent Opera broken code on gmail). Even Safari has site specific hacks.
Edge has IE in it for ancient corporate websites. (it is complicated to upgrade the systems & then train users)
There are still sites that are 100% Flash Player based.
"In memory of Geir Ivarsøy." is still on the Opera about page.
In my email signatures I still have:
Why Open the Web?
Despite the connecting purpose of the Web, it is not entirely open to all of its users.
When used correctly, HTML documents can be displayed across platforms and devices.
However, many devices are excluded access to Web content. -
Agree about IE and the past.
Disagree about the present and the nearest (hopefully only nearest!) future.The situation has changed, yes, but not as much as it is presented in the article.
What do we have now? The monopoly of damn Chrome!
Some websites are implemented in an idiotic way that they refuse to work normally on FF and for example Vivaldi (otherwise why has Vivaldi removed it's name from the user agent string for "compatibility" (lol)?) and asking to install the ugly Chrome.
Chromium is now the only standard!
So has the situation really changed that much?
There is no competition in engines, FF is slowly losing the number of users, Vivaldi/Opera/Cent/YouNameIt are all based and dependent on Chromium and Google, the browsers that use their own engines or approach (Otter and a few others) are very poorly supported and are being very slowly developed, or just disappear completely, and even if we imagine that at least one of them becomes stable and full-feature, there will definitely be some website compatibility issues, because Chromium is what we "need" and what is "required"!It's not standards, it's a take-over by Google and their Chromium.
Where is the normal competition between browsers and engines? Where is the choice? Where is Presto?
Presto-based Opera v2020 with a chromium'n'FF-extensions-support-layer - sounds like a science fiction story from the parallel universe.
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@lonm: Sadly, the only two currently-viable browser engines are Gecko (Firefox) and Webkit (pretty much everything else, including Chromium and thus Google Chrome and Vivaldi).
I don't understand why Vivaldi didn't fork off of Firefox instead of Chromium if they're really concerned about preventing a browser monoculture, although maybe Firefox wasn't a viable base back when Vivaldi first launched.
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@JohnConnorBear I think you are being very unfair in regard to mr von tetzcner.He made sound judgement in regard to which engine to use for vivaldi in terms of compatibility now and in the future.
yes indeed he had presto but you seem to incorrectly assume his motives are in parallel with google.
personally i have never used the opera of old and i used firefox or IE.For the record google didn't walk all over us with nailed boots or do people not know how to uninstall chrome.?..Chrome users had a choice and they chose perhaps unwisely to allow this prospective monopoly to occur.
it begs the question..why do chrome users or rather over 70% of web users choose that browser over others.
I just don't buy that a browser is forced upon people and uninstalling takes minutes.
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I worked for an engineering company many years ago pre-IE and remember attending a presentation from Spyglass about using “their” (Mosaic’s, really) technology as a way to create technical visualizations, sort of a PowerPoint on steroids.
That was what having access to the original graphical Web browser amounted to in their estimation.
I’m sure they thought they were quite lucky when Microsoft agreed to pay them for a license.
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@tradesmanhelix said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
maybe Firefox wasn't a viable base back when Vivaldi first launched.
This is likely the case. When vivaldi was first being developed mozilla was in the middle of a big rewrite of code, and vivaldi wouldn't have been able to keep up.
I think long-term that is a pity, but we can't turn back time.
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IE was for me a very practical utility to download a browser on a new PC, I have always disabled it afterwards.
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considering that internet explorer its been replaced by chromium and firefox it the only real alternative, history its repeating itself sadly
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@agych: glad that someone understand the current situation, its better than ie days but its not better by any means
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One issue for me is all my HTA files.
I use IE with VBS to make it easier to administer my local network and machine.
Fortunately IE has just reached its EOL, it will not be removed from Windows so I can still use it for now...
I can always copy out the scripts and perhaps turn some or all into PowerShell scripts when IE becomes unavailable.[EDIT] I agree with the book idea from @Nekomajin.
From Jon's Various writings and posts over the years I find he has a understanding of what is happening in the technology world and is able to elucidate this knowledge and experience into finely crafted writing.
Bravo !! -
Here's
an ideathe solution, Mozilla ditches dead Gecko, forks Chromium and everyone else except Google & M$ contributes to the code /added: Then you have 2 true camps fighting, forcing people to take responsibility at last and stand at the right side -
@npro said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
Here's an idea, Mozilla ditches dead Gecko, forks Chromium and everyone else except Google contributes to the code
Mozilla are/were in the process of retiring gecko and replacing with servo/rust.
but recent mozilla changes may upset that.
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@Priest72 said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
@npro said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
Here's
an ideathe solution, Mozilla ditches dead Gecko, forks Chromium and everyone else except Google & M$ contributes to the code /added: Then you have 2 true camps fighting, forcing people to take responsibility at last and stand at the right sideMozilla are/were in the process of retiring gecko and replacing with servo/rust.
but recent mozilla changes may upset that.
They 're just postponing/slowing down their inevitable death this way, now that they still have some people left and with the help of the momentum regarding "privacy matters" is the time to act clever.
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I would read a book from Jon about the shaping of the internet and browsers with insights like these.
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@tradesmanhelix: Perhaps in the future, we will see browser render engines born from chromium
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We don't even need Chrome. At last, Chrome is responsible for Presto death, not IE. Google did the same thing. Maybe now you need to work together with Mozilla, Microsoft and Apple, to improve Web standards...
You can't even identify Vivaldi on web, as Vivaldi. Is it any better with Google? I don't think so. It's even worse.
I just hope that you will be able to bring back Presto in future. -
@Priest72 said in Good riddance, Internet Explorer!:
question..why do chrome users or rather over 70% of web users choose that browser over others.
answer.. because they're not Vivaldi users. No, i am not being trite, instead i simply allude to the concept of ethos. I posit that whilst V can be used by anyone [& obviously Jon & team would quite like such a scenario], historically to now the majority of V users have specifically sought out V & adopted it coz it matches their personal ethos. They want their web access to be as much as possible on their own terms, via a vehicle bent to their will & specific use-cases, catering to their taste & tone. We could never use Chrome.
We however remain the minority. Others [whom i might mischievously describe possibly as B-Arkers] do not give a flying fig about the vehicle. They've simply no interest in controlling the journey, they care only about the destination. They either don't understand how commodified they become by bowing to that behemoth, or sense something of it but shrug & don't care. Some, which continues to blow my mind, both know & relish being commodified [i kindly call these people; morons].
I don't need to look far to see validation [or at least, correlation] of this. My Dad, my sisters ... simply do not care, not one teensy weensy little bit do they care. In my sisters' case, they actively shake their heads & regard me with pity that i do care.
It's a weird world... but made slightly less bonkers for having V.
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@greybeard @jon
If not a full book, maybe a regular column on the V blog with a self-contained story each time?Not necessarily about bashing Microsoft or Google every time, but insights of how the standards developed, what difficulties turned up at Opera or just funny stories from the world of browser development.
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@JohnConnorBear
You don't know what you are talking about and about how a web browser works. You don't need any G0gles permission to compile your own build of Chromium. Which Vivaldi and many other current web browsers are based on. Only if you will have the knowledge and time to do it. One compile takes couple of hours on a good computer. G0gles cannot lock now the Chromium code, it is only trying to forcibly steer development in its evil interest to conquer the whole Web.You should also be grateful for what this small team from Vivaldi is giving to its users. The best user centric UI, full of innovative options like once the unique Opera had. This on top of best web engine. Yes, Chromium it is well ahead of NOzilla's engine, all websites loading faster on Chromium and with less used resources and better Dev tools. And Vivaldi is free for its users, not twisted with some build-in coin mining for supporting its advertisers. As some other competitor has and called a "brave" movement.
And get used to it. Soon the Web fabric will be Chromium based. G0gles is keeping NOzilla around just as an so called competitor and to avoid what M$hit was thrown on by the gov. for IE. And for the same money NOzilla is also following the same UI design and ergonomics as Grome to blur the line between the two for the users. And when it will not save its purpose anymore, NOzilla will be left to rot and Safari web engine will be open for other OS-es to be the alternative.
You did not read it right. It needed the other tree big players in Web browsers world to get together to turn around M$hit from its scum tactics to dominate the Web how it did with desktop computers. There are no other big players in web browser engine world anymore. NOzilla took the code from Netscape, it did not even build something from the ground, and it managed now to totally destroy what was once the THE User's browser, Firefox, with all amazing customizations from addons.
Thanks Mr. Jon for a little reminder how the web browsers history unfolded. And Vivaldi Team for some Great software to use daily and openly recommend to others.