Screen Reader Accessibility and Vivaldi in General

britechguy · 1 Jul 2023, 17:14

I am someone who works with individuals who are blind and visually-impaired, and have been using Vivaldi myself as my primary browser for a long while. Among the Chromium-based browsers, I'm sorry to say, it is the least accessible among them, particularly the mail client as well as the new workspaces, which I can find no way to jump between using just the keyboard.

If there are ways to manipulate workspaces (first and most important) and the e-mail client (not quite, but almost equally important) via keyboard shortcuts and documentation exists for doing so, please direct me to it. I can generally figure this out simply because the consistencies across Chromium-based browsers are large, but I've had little luck in regard to Vivaldi.

I'd love to have another accessible web browser I can recommend to my blind and visually impaired clients. At the moment, I can't do that for Vivaldi.

Pathduck · 1 Jul 2023, 17:21

@britechguy Hi, please read the help files.

https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/shortcuts/keyboard-shortcuts/

https://help.vivaldi.com/mail/mail-advanced/mail-keyboard-shortcuts/

https://help.vivaldi.com/calendar/calendar-advanced/calendar-keyboard-shortcuts/

Or, just look in settings, under keyboard maybe?

it is the least accessible among them

That's a stretch and then some!

If anything Vivaldi is the browser with the absolutely best keyboard accessibility. It's one of the reasons I switched in the first place...

britechguy · 1 Jul 2023, 17:26

@Pathduck Thanks for the pointers.

I need to keep playing with Vivaldi with NVDA, but I have not found it as easy to navigate as the other Chromium-based browsers so far.

britechguy · 1 Jul 2023, 17:54

@Pathduck: Well, one problem (and, yes, it can be fixed) that I found under the Keyboard settings is that Vivaldi default to "Focus Input" (which only gives access to edit boxes and lists) under the Full Keyboard Access settings, rather than "Focus All Controls." That's the opposite of what most (in my own experience, all) other Chromium-based browsers do.

It appears that if one wants anything other than the CTRL+SHIFT+{number} shortcuts for moving between workspaces you need to create them and the same applies as far as a Create Workspace shortcut as well.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to basic functionality like that, it would be really helpful if default shortcuts were "baked in" that you can change if you so desire. But at least they can be created.

Pathduck · 1 Jul 2023, 18:04

@britechguy Yes, Vivaldi chose to do Tab focus differently than other browsers, but it can be changed.

Of course having Tab move through all page elements is good for screen readers. But for everyone else it's a PITA. I find Tab only focusing inputs a massive time saver. For navigating web page links, there's Spatial Navigation, which is far superior to Tab browsing or caret browsing.
https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/shortcuts/spatial-navigation/

I can't help with Workspaces, don't use them. And other browser don't even have them, so there's that comparison out the window. Even if other browsers might have something similar - is there keyboard access for it there? It's like comparing apples and oranges.

You'll just have to learn how Vivaldi does things, change the stuff you need and adapt your screen reader to that. If your software can't be adapted, it's a poor software if you ask me.

britechguy · 1 Jul 2023, 18:09

With regard to Workspaces, Vivaldi got there first (at least among Firefox, Chrome, Brave, Edge (both regular and Dev).

There is a preview going on at the moment in "real" Edge, but no keyboard shortcuts, which is unsurprising, really, as MS previews tend to be universally crappy.

It appears that you are a screen reader user, and if you made the fatal mistake of consenting to either Outlook or Teams Previews you'll know exactly what I mean by crappy previews. Within a day of Outlook PRE being pushed I had to write a tutorial for screen reader users to get themselves out of it.

Pathduck · 7 Jan 2023, 18:29

@britechguy said in Screen Reader Accessibility and Vivaldi in General:

It appears that you are a screen reader user

No - I am just a browser user that cares deeply about keyboard accessibility. I try to do as much as possible using the kb, whether that be in the OS or in the software I use regularly. I can still grab a mouse in a pinch though

With Vivaldi, I can do most things, at least the important things. There are some parts of the UI that needs better keyboard access, like the Status Bar features, and some of the newer features where it seems keyboard access was more of an afterthought - like workspaces maybe. Changing the icon for instance, seems impossible to do with the keyboard.

if you made the fatal mistake of consenting to either Outlook or Teams Previews

Well I try to stay away from those things as much as possible. Except for work, where I am forced to yield as there is no choice. I haven't even bothered to learn hotkeys for Teams. I know the most useful ones for Outlook, after all it's not changed much in 20 years or so

I try to learn the hotkeys in Edge, and MS is generally pretty good at making stuff keyboard accessible, at least you can actually navigate most of Edge's UI with keyboard only - if you have a lot of patience and a sturdy Tab key

But of course, no custom hotkeys, so it's the MS way or the highway .

britechguy · 1 Jul 2023, 18:36

@Pathduck said in Screen Reader Accessibility and Vivaldi in General:

But of course, no custom hotkeys, so it's the MS way or the highway .

But, there is something to be said for "using the defaults of whoever got there first." Microsoft is using what every other Chromium-based browser (save Vivaldi, in certain areas) uses for its keyboard shortcuts. This is a case where consistency is neither foolish nor the hobgobblin of little minds.

I constantly rant, on a number of blind-centric technology groups I am on (two of which I moderate), that no one is going to love whatever defaults get chosen for any piece of software, but so long as they can be changed to suit you, you have nothing to complain about.

With that being said, though, I can see no point in choosing any unique shortcuts for dirt common activities, ever, or even the previously noted restriction on focus on a webpage. That choice is the opposite of the "default everywhere else" and is not at all helpful to those who do use accessibility software.

It is way faster and easier, in general, for the sighted world to find various settings to change them to their liking. That's why I believe so strongly in any given product in a given class "conforming to the norm" for all defaults and allowing customization out the wazoo if they choose to support that. But odd defaults are really, really not helpful when it comes to accessbility for screen reader users.

DoctorG · 2 Jul 2023, 09:57

@britechguy I always try to ping the devs internally if Vivaldi fails with assistive technology.

It si very important to get help from you and bug reports what does not work for impaired users.

We appreciate your ideas and help!

DoctorG · 7 Feb 2023, 13:57

@britechguy I want to have Vivaldi available for all people. #ally #disabled

If you find issues with Vivaldi not running on assistive technology then report issue to Vivaldi bug tracker. Once that is done, share the bug number (beginning with VB-) you got by bug report mail. Thanks for helping us making Vivaldi better.

britechguy · 2 Jul 2023, 18:37

Thanks to all for your replies, and for the clear interest in making/keeping Vivaldi accessible.

It is so much easier to "bake-in" accessibility as things move along rather than trying to retrofit it after the fact.

I'm going to have to start playing more with NVDA and Vivaldi (which I use as my primary browser). Because Vivaldi is not nearly as popular or well known as Chrome, Firefox, or Edge most blind or visually impaired users end up on one of those. One thing I'd really like to be able to do is add another accessible email client as a proverbial arrow in my quiver when working with those clients. I'd love it if Vivaldi's email client, which I've really only started working with at all, might be one of those arrows.

Brian

DoctorG · 16 Dec 2024, 12:48

@britechguy said in Screen Reader Accessibility and Vivaldi in General:

I'm going to have to start playing more with NVDA and Vivaldi

And now, what do you think? Does NVDA on Vivaldi work for people you help?

Figaro_FV · 2 Jan 2025, 08:26

Indeed, it would be good if the original poster, or any other user working with assistive technologies, could elaborate on what works well and what doesn't work well for them with current versions of Vivaldi.
Accessibility-minded developers and testers can try and test screen readers for themselves, but it's very specific software that most of us have zero experience with. Having real stories and use cases from real users is very important here.