Keyboard shortcuts breaking experience



  • Hi. The thing is that keyboard shortcuts work just everywhere. Say Google Sheets. You select a cell, you press F2 to edit it, you get Quick Commands thing up front blocking cell input. This kind of things also happen in Flash games, so pressing say CTRL+SHIFT+O opens up left sidebar. Etc, it is actually breaking any interactive web experience where you have to do a little more than merely clicking. Disabling the entire shortcut system is not an option you know why. Is there a way to make it just like it is done in Opera? Thanks.



  • There's a shortcut to toggle shortcut keys. Try using that when visiting a web page that needs edit keys.



  • @Pesala:

    There's a shortcut to toggle shortcut keys. Try using that when visiting a web page that needs edit keys.

    Thanks, but this resolves the problem only partially because I don't want to disable ALL shortcuts, but only those for which there is some context-related behavior. For example, if you open Opera and press CTRL+H you'll get a History tab, but it won't happen if you are currently working in Google Sheets, it will open custom Google Sheets 'Find and replace' popup. All in all, custom page shortcuts behavior should prevent (override) default non-critical browser shortcut behavior.



  • I also agree and +1, that Keyboard Shortcut settings need some adjustments.

    For example mentioned F2 / CTRL + F on Google Spreadsheet is really annoying. Also turning all shortcuts on/off after every change to another tab is hardly workaround. It's just making user experience really bad.

    So I guess it would be nice to have more rules/options. Tu be able to use some per page setting. Or even to be able to define own profiles with shortcuts sets, with option to map/activate them to/on specific pages. Or for start even settings for some of the most common sites to disable some shortcuts there or even all of them.

    Thank you for considering this.



  • @Nostromo:

    All in all, custom page shortcuts behavior should prevent (override) default non-critical browser shortcut behavior.

    Who decides what is critical or non-critical behaviour?

    Google doc shortcuts may be different to other web pages that use them. I think you're going to need something like Site Preferences in Opera 12.17, but even that doesn't allow you to disable particular shortcuts.

    I note that disabling all shortcuts does not disable mouse gestures, nor does it disable Home/End to go to the top/bottom of a page, so there are already some possible solutions to working with shortcuts disabled. Ctrl + Scrollwheel to switch tabs also works, etc.

    For now, I assigned Ctrl + Alt + Enter to toggle shortcuts off/on, which is not too easy to hit by accident.



  • @stealth789:

    So I guess it would be nice to have more rules/options. To be able to use some per page setting. Or even to be able to define own profiles with shortcuts sets, with option to map/activate them to/on specific pages. Or for start even settings for some of the most common sites to disable some shortcuts there or even all of them.

    Thank you for considering this.

    To me, it seems like the cure is worse than the disease. It might be OK to disable particular shortcuts for a single site, but if you have to edit shortcut options every time you encounter an Internet form, it's going to get burdensome for users. I think it would be simpler to change those shortcuts like Ctrl B to Ctrl Shift B, or Ctrl H to Ctrl Shift H, etc., as and when you encounter a problem.

    BTW: I have already submitted a Report for the Ctrl B shortcut:

    (VB-17731) Default Shortcut for Bookmarks Manager Should not be Ctrl B



  • For the record VB-17731 was marked as duplicate of VB-10521 which is about the same problem while not related ecxatly to CTRL+B, but to any overlapping shorcut.



  • @Pesala:

    To me, it seems like the cure is worse than the disease. It might be OK to disable particular shortcuts for a single site, but if you have to edit shortcut options every time you encounter an Internet form, it's going to get burdensome for users. I think it would be simpler to change those shortcuts like Ctrl B to Ctrl Shift B, or Ctrl H to Ctrl Shift H, etc., as and when you encounter a problem.

    Hi,

    even if you think it's worse, I'll try to elaborate my point.

    –---

    Sure you can change few shortcuts like CTRL + B. But I guess you won't change for example CTRL + F, because we can call it standard. And it will interfere with many pages, making us hard time to use them. So basically this way you won't achieve it to be really useful. But I agree it can help. Also I'm trying to think, that one day it would be a must have. As today even more and more applications are moved to HTML5, there would rise more problems with this kind of keyboard handling and need for custom shortcuts for applications in pages. But back to my short thought about lets call it "Keyboard Profiles" suggestion. I'll try to show example of what I've meant.

    –---

    PROFILES
    Let's say that all of current Keyboard Shortcut like we have it now as whole set/group, we will call:
    Default Keyboard Shortcut Profile.
    Then we would have option to create another set/group we can call:
    Google Keyboard Shortcut Profile.
    And we can basically manage these profiles. Simply let's say make copy, and change a few things and so on. Now we have ready shortcuts profiles.

    –---

    MAPPING
    Now next problem is, to specify, when to use these profiles. I can see two points of view to map these:

    1) Page <- Profile

    So in this case, there can be setting to assign profile to page. It can use some rules to assign profile to page pattern or regular expression, just something to match page. And rules can be processed from up to down. So in our case you could define rules:

    | Page pattern | Profile |
    | docs.google.com | Google Keyboard Shortcut Profile |
    | vivaldi.net | Vivaldi Keyboard Shortcut Profile |
    | * (Any other) | Default Keyboard Shortcut Profile |

    Then you are able to define more sites using specific settings. Use as much profiles as you like…

    2) Page -> Profile

    In this point of view, we can have scenario of custom page settings. So let's say I'm on page. I can choose Profile to use there. Or on the other hand, define new custom set for current page. This can use Profiles internally. Still I guess it could use point 1) as base for settings even processed internally.

    –---

    This so called engine, can then handle situations that are to come. So maybe just give it a thought.

    So you can even try to implement it in similar complex way. To use Profiles even internally. Or you can have many cases for specific shortcuts and pages internally. That way it will only cost more and more need of custom hardcoded settings.

    But maybe I'm just thinking out loud ;).



  • I think we should not overdo it. The solution is simple: if a page reacts to some keyboard shortcuts then Vivaldi should not react to these. Critical shortcuts should of course always work. By critical I mean ALT+F4 and such so some smelly page could not block the whole thing up. It works this way in all other major browsers (well, besides IE). It is convenient, isn't it? I think it is not bad to adopt proven and widely recognized mechanics. After all, old good classic Opera had it all right.



  • It can be even this way. Question is, if it's easy on technical level to distinguish which shortcuts are handled in focused area - page/container/iframe, and which should be handled by browser. But as with OS there are some global hooks and local one. So I'm not completely sure, that this simple rule can cover all of the scenarios and user's habits. Still I can't elaborate more, as far as I'm not web developer, and I have no idea of how keyboard is handled in Vivaldi. But I get it as another point that can be taken as advice when the day will come to extend current keyboard handling.



  • @stealth789:

    I guess you won't change for example CTRL + F, because we can call it standard.

    Even that would not be a problem if a page that I visited frequently needed to use Ctrl F. I already assigned "/" to the "Find in page" command as that is a legacy shortcut from Opera 12.17. F3 is a default shortcut that also opens the find toolbar.

    Multiple keyboard profiles are already available in Opera 12.17 so I guess that part would not be hard to do, and might be useful for other reasons, e.g. sharing computers with other users.

    The problematic part is switching the keyboard profiles on a per site basis This sounds to me like a recipe for a bug fest. A simple site preference to disable all keyboard shortcuts on a site should work. Users still have mouse gestures, left, right, or middle clicks for the usual needed functions.



  • How can I know developers' decision about this? Should I post this to some Jira somewhere as a feature request?



  • I see. Well, then I'm falling back to current Opera. Vivaldi is unusable for me because of these hindering IE-style keyboard shortcuts. I'll give it another try in a few months though.



  • @RRR13:

    If I set a Vivaldi shortcut and it doesn't work when I press it, that's a bug.

    This is how all major browsers (besides IE) do work nowadays. If the browser does not allow to use key combinations that are required by the web service you are working with, then that's the bug. Anyway, there could be a checkbox in Vivaldi that allows user to choose whether to override website shortcuts or to allow them to ovverride Vivaldi's.

    @RRR13:

    If you care so much about one website

    Unfortunately, it's not just one website. I am a software developer and I have to use many web services such as Jira, Asana, Google Docs, Google Sheets, Scrumwise, Skype (web version), various custom analytics systems etc etc etc. I just can't do my job with Vivaldi's shortcuts hard override, sorry.



  • @RRR13:

    There is a keyboard shortcut for temporarily allowing the behavior, and you can also change most of the Vivaldi shortcuts so I don't really see why you could not do your job.

    It is a very, very inconvenient workaround way, especially when talking about developing games, which have tons of different keys mapped.

    @RRR13:

    Overriding by default the system shortcuts (in our case, Vivaldi shortcuts) on the whims of some apps (in our case, webpages), is fundamentally wrong and that is why Windows doesn't do it either.

    What, if you press F1 right now you say you'll get a Windows help? No, you'll get what's mapped on F1 in the application that's currently in focus. In our case we talk webpages instead of applications. Webpage that's currently in focus.

    @RRR13:

    demented behavior

    Please consider a browser application not only as a something to click into and occasionally pressing CTRL+T or CTRL+W, but also as a robust job-efficiency-enhancing platform for complex rich web services with vast userbase doing their job fulltime.



  • @Nostromo

    Yes this is also a deal breaker for me. The Vivalidi Shortcuts overriding my webpage experience, especially in editing web applications is not working out very well. For example, CTRL+B is for BOLD on all the editors, but what happens is that, yes the word gets bolded, but then my bookmarks tab opens and its now disrupted my workflow. I guess its back to Chrome for now... :-(


  • Moderator

    @zparihar The developers are working on a solution, but it is not ready yet.

    Current workaround: Disable or change the Vivaldi shortcut (so it does not interfere) in vivaldi://settings/keyboard/


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Vivaldi Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.