Pulling the plug on expired Operating Systems

[Catweazle]

@zeLounge , I don't see the thing as dramatic, I have survived from the changes since pre-Windows times with MS DOS and various equipment changes. I have rarely lost anything, documents, photos, videos currently still have valid formats to be able to access, in applications I have always preferred FOSS and most of the commercial soft has excellent OpenSource alternatives.

For this reason I have not lost financially either. I didn't have any problems either when successive Windows lost support, using some Linux distro, which is always available.
The only investment is the time to configure the system to the needs. After many years Windows 7 has reached the end of the road and it is not such a big problem to go to 10 or Linux, to continue having compatibility with the browser. Why is this going to touch Vivaldi and all the others too, even if one or the other endured months? anything else.

This touches Vivaldi and also everyone else, even FF, maybe a month or so later. Throughout our lives, we are left to invent unheard-of words and remind ourselves with "love" of the ancestors of these great monopolies.

[zeLounge]

@eggcorn: I'm running a 10-year-old ThinkPad: few OS running at the same time in vBox, encode videos in x265, 3D CAD... no sweat (well, maybe a bit hot).
20-year-old computers: you'd be surprise how well they run with the appropriate Linux distribution.
30-year-old computers: Still could be good as typewriters.

In the 60s, people watched 20in B/W TV. Now you got to have a 6ft wide 4K panel, otherwise you're out. Really ?? Are people happier with a 6ft wide TV ??

My point is that in the progression, there is a point where more is not better. Win7 is a good example of a mature OS. All newer versions have not brought significant improvement other than messing up the UI. The argument of newer hardware is Marketing BS to maintain a steady stream of revenue. Chromium... same BS, they're pushing the need for faster CPU/GPU, more memory, more disk, more, more, more...; same with website/streaming... you need a minimum of 20Mbps to surf the net... pushing for faster & faster datacenters.

Are we happier?

[zeLounge]

@Catweazle Love your avatar
Here & now, this on its own, is not a drama, I agree. And I relate very well with your few decades experience.

My sounding dramatic, is witnessing the surrounding & intensifying push from all major organizations toward a "global technocracy" (or something like that).

More & more, the hardware/software is "controlled" by Big tech. Some android software won't run if the google services is not connected. It's becoming almost impossible to repair your own stuff. Hell, you can buy a 200,000 John Deere tractor, but you're prohibited from repairing it, it is software locked.

We live in a full consent manufacturing times. Gullibly seduced, and bagged like chickens.

To me, it's a bit dramatic. I wish I would take it as calmly as you.
Kind regards, & thx for your feedback.

[Zalex108]

to have a robust Last W7 Snap and Stable versions to keep browsing for as long as we can / need.

[Eggcorn]

@zeLounge said in Pulling the plug on expired Operating Systems:

30-year-old computers: Still could be good as typewriters.

At that point: You're better off with a cheap but more modern computer that can use the Internet. That would also be good as a typewriter. Aside from some specialized uses, or if you just want to own a piece of computer history: A 30-year-old computer is utterly impractical.

Unless, of course, you replace the motherboard and hard disk. If such an old computer will accept a modern motherboard and hard disk: You could get yourself a historic 30-year-old computer, that's practical for daily use.

[zeLounge]

@Eggcorn Point taken

Talking about owing a piece of history, about 10 years ago a friend of mine had recovered an HP3000 series III (from the 80s) mini computer system... Main Unit the size of a fridge, 640MB drives the size of a dishwasher... Still working, on MPE... What a blast.... on the electrical bill.

I guess I'm now part of history as well.
Thx for your feedback.
Cheers.

[dude99]

Big tech in 2020: We all support the new green plan, watch us doing more backsliding green propagandas that make you feel really good about "us" while we continue polluting the planet for great profits...

Big tech in 2023: We are still fully committed to the new green plan, watch us bricking all your old PC & laptop to fill the beautiful green landscape with fully functional computer hardware...

What so "green" about these new green plan anyway? I have a feeling it's more about sucking all the green dollars from consumer than preserving the green environment to combat the ever so ominous global warming, or whatever climate change that they are suppose to care about. LOL

[Eggcorn]

@dude99 Yeah, don't trust big companies that claim to be the good guys fighting for what's right. It's usually a load of hot air. Trust the ones who give you a good product at a good price!

[Neophyte]

@Pesala said in Pulling the plug on expired Operating Systems:

I just accept that it makes economic sense to upgrade my PC every ten years or so. Performance increases by an order of magnitude in that period.

• 2001 Windows ME
• 2013 Windows 7 64-bit
• 2021 Windows 10 (my current hardware)

I plan to keep using Windows 10. I only upgraded to Windows 10 on my Windows 7 PC because time was running out to do it for free.

Hard disagree. It was true in the 90s weere every few years that difference was so massive to be clearly visible to even non-PC-savvy persons. However that hasn't been the case for almost 2 decades now.

For the average PC user, and their daily usage requirements, a 10 year old PC will not be much different than a 1 day old PC.

The only major difference they would notice is the improve load times from an SSD, and that can easily be added to a 10 year old PC simply by swapping drives.

[Catweazle]

The hardware has not experienced such great advances in PCs in the last 10 years, apart from having a little more RAM and the generalization of the SSD, nothing that is not possible to upgrade on an old PC.
Of course, the big companies have transferred the obsolescence of the Hardware (practically all PCs last perfectly 10 or more years) to the software (separate printers, with replacement cartridges that cost as much as a new printer).

But still it is inevitable that an OS reaches its compatibility limits with different current computing demands. Windows 7 was released in 2009 and has outlived many PCs, but I think having to replace it now, after 13+ years, doesn't qualify as planned obsolescence, wouldn't be fair. Even if you're using Linux, you'll find that over the years also a certain distro will become obsolete for many tasks, if not updated.

Naturally, for those who use the PC for office apps and little else, they can get by perfectly with an old Pentium with a tube screen, but if you want to be able to take advantage of new web formats, watch movies in a decent resolution, want to play something other than old Space Invaders, designing with realistic graphics applications, without dying while the images render, requires equipment and software to match, despite the fact that some cry out to heaven for having to update their software or hardware, who cannot find VHS tapes for their recorder, cassettes for his Walkman, having to buy a new TV to be able to watch DTT broadcasts, Super8 cameras, etc..

Technologies advance exponentially by giant steps and this makes it necessary to update, yes or yes and we only have to do it in the least traumatic way possible, if we want to take advantage of these new technologies, but this is left to the decision of the needs of each.

[User5765]

@eggcorn: You don't get it. It's not that I'm just "unwilling" to switch OS, it's that I don't have the money, thus time to fix what essentially isn't broken.

I'm not saying that Vivaldi itself is liable to pay me anything, but that someone has to pay me for the time I cannot work, because otherwise I may not be able to afford rent or eat for the week.

[User5765]

@pesala: What you're talking about are updates, not forced upgrades that cost money. There are only very few reasons why old Windows versions couldn't continue to receive patches and the main one is because Microsoft makes money selling new versions. Which makes this planned obsolescence, plain and simple.

There was this whole thing from Microsoft when Windows 10 came out, where they made big statements about Windows 10 being "the last version of Windows" and that it would get patches indefinitely. And yet, Windows 11 came out. Can you take a guess on why?

Also, even if the Vivaldi team are not the ones that made the actual mostly arbitrary decision to stop support, they are still active participants in this system.

[Catweazle]

@User5765 , you don't have to either, whether it continues to work for your purposes depends solely on your own demands. If it is enough for you to use the PC as you write documents in Word, you can continue using it until the final judgment without problems.

Everything we use requires time for care and maintenance, nobody pays us for this time. It's not a matter of money and running a new OS doesn't take that much time, so you can keep working, customizations can be done on the fly.

It's certainly a nuisance, but sooner or later it's inevitable. It happens with all the other things we use and want to make the most of, not just computing. If they offer us the possibility of working with them faster and more efficiently, apart from making it more secure to use, it is worth spending time installing and customizing it.

Valid since we exchanged our typewriter and slide rule for our first PC.

[Neophyte]

@Catweazle I am using a 10 year old processor, and I can run Resident Evil 8 at 60 FPS 1080p with medium to high settings.

The idea that a 10 year old PC can barely play Youtube is just laughable.

[User5765]

@catweazle: What your saying doesn't really apply, though, because upgrading Windows is not really an objective improvement and a step forward in technology. Especially on older hardware, where the whole bloated system eats up all the RAM and runs at approximately 11 FPS.

It's as if I had to replace my perfectly working, finely tuned typewriter for a needlessly bulkier model that is too heavy for my desk, stripped of all the modifications I made to my old one, only because the manufacturer decided it wouldn't provide me any sheets of paper for the old model anymore.

Also, sure, in an ideal world, everyone would be able to afford the time and money for maintenance, but here in the real world, some of us just don't. Especially not for the kind of "maintenance" that is purely artificial and doesn't actually improve or fix anything.

[Catweazle]

@User5765 , It is not true that W10 uses more resources than W7, ok, it spends a few megabytes more, but this is irrelevant in computers less than 10 years old. As a general rule, if it works well with W7, it will also work with W10. There are even netbooks with W10.

Here's what it takes to upgrade to Windows 10 on your PC or tablet:

Latest OS: Make sure you're running the latest version—either Windows 7 SP1 or Windows 8.1 Update.
Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster processor or SoC
RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) for 32-bit or 2 GB for 64-bit
Hard disk space: 16 GB for 32-bit OS or 20 GB for 64-bit OS
Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver
Display: 800 x 600

Bloatware to eliminate are in every Windows since Win 95, Only there are telemetries you must eleminate, but this also isn't a great problem, most you can make in the settings. Easier using the GodMode, or with apps like Optimizer (FOSS)

[User5765]

@catweazle: Well, you're just wrong here. Windows 10 is definitively much more bloated. I tested fresh installs of both in a VM. Can you guess which one ran fine and which one like crap, even with RAM and GPU allocation maxed out?

Also, Windows 7 uses 8 to 10 GB on the hard drive, while 10 occupies 18 to 20GB.

[Catweazle]

@User5765 , I've edited my post al respect, running W10 in a VM isn't the same as running it directly. In VM you're running two OS at the same time.
W10 isn't more bloated as all other Windows before, only it has certainly more telemetries, but as I said, you can eliminate them. not a big problem for an user with some experience.

Windows naturally doesn't say much about how to do it in its documentation, but even so, it allows you to do it leaving W10 as the OS as it is, without more. More complicated only in W11, where this is already almost impossible, but this problem arises soon within 3-4 years.

[TravellinBob]

Interesting reading through the Comments on this thread (to which I've added a few myself) and see the number that are from Linux users recommending that OS as a replacement.

Last week I posted a piece called "Linux: What's the big deal?" on my Vivaldi blog Stuff by Travellin' Bob (travellinbob.vivaldi.net) that, as the title suggests, asked for some pointers about Linux and its popularity, from a strictly layman's perspective as I am a technical illiterate.

No idea how many people have read it (if any) - there has been zero response. It would be nice if some of the Linux advocates on this thread would be kind enough to have a read and add some Comments......I've been toying with the idea of switching for a couple of years already but never found anyone to give some simple advice.

Thanks all!

[Eggcorn]

@User5765 When you put it that way, you have a point: The computer manufacturer should have given you a straightforward way to switch to an OS that will continue to get security updates. By not doing that, they're arguably renting a computer to you instead of selling one.

That said, it is your responsibility to properly back up your files! It's something you should be doing regularly, not just something you do when it's time to update the OS.