Bug: CTRL + LEFT ARROW (or RIGHT ARROW) cause "page back" behaviour and lost text in text box



  • Hi, I want to quick describe a bug which caused lost of my long post at some forum. When I want to quick move text cursor in edit box I use combination CTRL+LEFT_ARROW (or RIGHT_ARROW). Unfortunatelly, in Vivaldi it causes "page back" behavior. I lost my second post in that way ;) Can You turn off this feature when edit box is actually selected? Or change the default keys combination for "page back" to... ALT+LEFT_ARROW? I changed this key shortcut for myself in Vivaldi settings. Thank you very much. And Thank you for creating Vivaldi!



  • I kept losing stuff by using the GestureDown mouse gesture. It opens a new tab I am easily confused by such things. :S

    In Opera 12.17 I use it to go to the bottom of the page.



  • but Ctrl+arrow key is the standard shortcut to go forward or go back in all browser you couldn´t change it. It is the standart basic operation. ctrol+rigth arrow=go back.
    plus when you don´t use mouse because you are using a netbook or notebook tha has touchpad instead mouse, spatial navigation interfered the selection of words in a text field. Lucky for touch-pad users it was fixed and we can select words using Shift+arrow key to select words.


  • Moderator

    Bug is known and reported. No fix yet.



  • I still think that the browser commands should be different than the OS level ones

    Say ALT+Z or CTRL+U to undo something, while CTRL+Z should be left for text editing reasons.

    The same applies for CTRL+[LEFT|RIGHT].

    CTRL+B or ALT+LEFT form back would be better than CTRL+LEFT, and so on…



  • @The_Solutor:

    I still think that the browser commands should be different than the OS level ones

    The problem (IMO) is that in most other browsers keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+LeftArrow, Ctrl+RightArrow, etc. are "field dependent" (i.e., behave differently when cursor focus is in the address field or a text box than they do when the focus is elsewhere) and millions (billions?) of users are already accustomed to this convention.

    BTW, for the Vivaldi forum I have yet to lose text in a text field by accidentally using Ctrl+LeftArrow or Ctrl+RightArrow while drafting a post in the forum (accident occurs several times per day). Whenever it happens I just issue the opposite keyboard command or use the browser Back/Forward buttons to return to the page I was working on and all my draft text is still there.

    As I posted somewhere else, I don't know if it is my local Vivaldi browser (cache/RAM?) or the Vivaldi forum software (server-side) that is retaining my text, but I could not possibly continue to post here if that was not the case. (I haven't yet tested this in any other forums.)



  • @gdveggie:

    The problem (IMO) is that in most other browsers keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+LeftArrow, Ctrl+RightArrow, etc. are "field dependent" (i.e., behave differently when cursor focus is in the address field or a text box than they do when the focus is elsewhere) and millions (billions?) of users are already accustomed to this convention.

    Sure. But sometimes to do something better you have to break some conventions.

    Say, most of the users were (and many still are) accustomed to start the browser and see the home page, Opera broke that rule and (by default) started to open the last session. Nowadays a lot of users (even ex opera users, and people who never used it) are using an option or an extension to have the session restored.

    Being too sticky to the standards, often, is a way to block the innovation.

    As I posted somewhere else, I don't know if it is my local Vivaldi browser (cache/RAM?) or the Vivaldi forum software (server-side) that is retaining my text, but I could not possibly continue to post here if that was not the case. (I haven't yet tested this in any other forums.)

    From what I can understand, lately, the text is retained (in case of a crash, or wrong navigation command) either by some forum engines and by some recent browsers, (Opium does it), looks like that in Vivaldi's case that function is not implemented (yet) in either side.

    So you don't lose the typed text using Vivaldi on some other forums, and you shouldn't lose it posting here with Opium. (I haven't tested it yet, so is just a guess).

    I hope that something in that direction will be done in the near future, in the browser and/or in the Vivaldi.net board.



  • @The_Solutor:

    But sometimes to do something better you have to break some conventions.

    Agreed, but what is better about failing to honor a text-editing function that goes back (IIRC) to Apple II+ (pre-IBM PC)? (Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but this is my primary concern with Vivaldi.)

    You, yourself said above:
    @The_Solutor:

    …while CTRL+Z should be left for text editing reasons.

    The same applies for CTRL+[LEFT|RIGHT].

    So when I'm editing text in any browser text-box or address bar, I want Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+LeftArrow, and Ctrl+RightArrow to work like they normally do in any other text-editing context.

    AFAIK (but I could be wrong), these aren't OS-level shortcuts, but software conventions used by used by nearly all computer users world-wide in nearly all OSs at the GUI level, nearly all text editors and word processors, as well as numerous other software applications.

    But I don't see any advantages to limiting those shortcuts to only text editing situations. AFAICR, when not in a text-field, all the browsers I've ever used with a tab forward/back history feature use either Ctrl+LeftArrow/RightArrow and/or Alt+LeftArrow/RightArrow to move Back/Forward in the tab history. What is to be gained by abandoning this familiar convention for something unfamiliar?



  • @The_Solutor:

    …looks like that in Vivaldi's case that function is not implemented (yet) in either side.

    No, what I'm saying is that with Vivaldi browser on Vivaldi forum it is already implemented on one side of the other. My draft text has persisted through dozens of accidental Forward/Back operations and through at least one Vivaldi browser crash.

    I'm just not yet sure whether the browser or the forum software is responsible for the text retention. (I haven't yet tested posting with Vivaldi browser in another forum, or on Vivaldi forum with another browser to see if text is retained.)

    Several users have mentioned they lost all of their text when Ctrl+BackArrow unexpectedly took them back in their tab history, and I'm saying if I go back forward in the tab history at that point, my text is still there.



  • @jazei:

    but Ctrl+arrow key is the standard shortcut to go forward or go back in all browser

    No, it's absolutely false, when you're typing a text:

    • it's false in chrome
    • it's false in FF
    • it's false in IE
    • it's false in Opera
    • it WAS false in Vivaldi, too, some release ago, but at a given moment, the bug appeared.

    When you're typing a text, no matter if it is into the address bar, the search bar, or into a text field, CTRL+LEFT just moves the cursor left to the beginning of the word.

    Vivaldi, instead, goes back in the history.

    newscpq



  • @gdveggie:

    Agreed, but what is better about failing to honor a text-editing function that goes back (IIRC) to Apple II+ (pre-IBM PC)? (Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but this is my primary concern with Vivaldi.)

    You, yourself said above:
    @The_Solutor:

    …while CTRL+Z should be left for text editing reasons.

    The same applies for CTRL+[LEFT|RIGHT].

    Indeed it's what I said.

    I rephrase it, to be clearer.

    I'd like to have CTRL-Z to undo a deletion when I'm writing something, but I like to have a different command to undo an action or reopen a tab. Same thing for the other editing related commands, like CTRL+ARROW and SHIFT+ARROW.

    No matter if the browser is working correctly or not. Because is too easy to do an unwanted action because a my distraction

    AFAIK (but I could be wrong), these aren't OS-level shortcuts, but software conventions used by used by nearly all computer

    Well… this is true (or partly true) in windows, where OS level is intended mostly as "most programs sticks to the conventions", but in MacOS CTRL+Z works practically in any part of the system. Say you can even delete an email account and then reverse the action using CTRL+Z. In linux is even more complicated because the different OS environments.

    But I don't see any advantages to limiting those shortcuts to only text editing situations.

    I don't want to limit the shortcuts, I want different ones for different scenarios.

    For the record I already did this for CTRL+Z. in Vivaldi. I customized the shortcut ALT+Z or CTRL+U, to reopen a closed tab, but CTRL+Z still works perfectly here, while I'm writing this message.

    Too bad CTRL+ARROWs are not (yet) customizable.

    I hope, now, my point is clearer.

    No, what I'm saying is that with Vivaldi browser on Vivaldi forum it is already implemented

    Oh, ok i misinterpreted your message, sorry.

    But that was because I lost a lot of messages here, lately it didn't happen because the lack of Vivaldi crashes or my mistakes.

    So I'm pleased to hear that something is changed.



  • @The_Solutor:

    I don't want to limit the shortcuts, I want different ones for different scenarios.

    Yes, I think now I get what you're saying about how that works better for you (somehow I thought you were proposing that as a design convention default for all software), and it looks like Vivaldi is already partway there and going in the right direction with individual user-specified shortcut configuration options.

    For the record I already did this for CTRL+Z. in Vivaldi. I customized the shortcut ALT+Z or CTRL+U, to reopen a closed tab, but CTRL+Z still works perfectly here, while I'm writing this message.

    Ahhh… Very nice!!! ;) ...But for me this is kind of buggy as the first few times I tried it (I tried changing to the conventional default Ctrl+Shift+T and to your Ctrl+U), Ctrl+Z both undid text changes in the forum post editor text box and reopened the last closed tab (i.e., a single Ctrl+Z shortcut event triggered both actions). But now I just had several successful text undos (Ctrl+Z) and redos (Ctrl+Y) without the last closed tab re-opening (although Ctrl+Y also toggles the Contacts panel each time so I'll have to change that (strange) Vivaldi default shortcut to something else). Maybe it will be better after I restart Vivaldi.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, there were a few times before I made the shortcuts change (i.e., still with the Vivaldi defaults) where I thought maybe Ctrl+Z was both undoing the text change and reopening the last closed tab (i.e., the same "double-duty"), but I was so distracted by the tab re-opening that I didn't closely monitor what had happened with the text.

    Too bad CTRL+ARROWs are not (yet) customizable.

    Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if several more options are eventually offered (or become/already are manually tweakable in a settings file).

    But that was because I lost a lot of messages here, lately it didn't happen because the lack of Vivaldi crashes or my mistakes.

    So I'm pleased to hear that something is changed.

    FWIW, if it is managed by the Vivaldi browser (in RAM/cache?) I think I was using either v1.0.138.4 or v1.0.141.2 the one time when the whole browser crashed and my Vivaldi forum post draft was still there when I re-opened Vivaldi browser. AFAICR, the retention of post draft text with an accidental Ctrl+Left/RightArow Back/Forward in the tab history has been there since I started with v1.0.129.2 (as I mentioned, I don't recall ever losing my draft text in several dozen such incidents; it is always retained when I return to it in the tab-history), so that predates the recent forum maintenance/update about a week ago.



  • @gdveggie:

    Yes, I think now I get what you're saying about how that works better for you (somehow I thought you were proposing that as a design convention default for all software)

    No, I believe that CTRL+Z to undo something is pretty fine on single function programs, say an image editor OR a text editor.

    A browser is something more complex (and Vivaldi is more complex than a standard browser) where the main functions are mixed with the text editing ones, and the UNDO action can be confusing, hence my preference for separate commands.



  • @The_Solutor:

    …and the UNDO action can be confusing, hence my preference for separate commands.

    Yes, I understand what you're saying now. My early tabbed browser experience was almost exclusively with Olde Opera (starting with v9.20 IIRC), so I have always used Ctrl+Z to undo last tab closure in Opera (when not focused in a editing context) from the beginning and never found it confusing. I missed that Ctrl+Z functionality as I started to explore other tab-browsers, but I gradually got used to Ctrl+Shift+T in other browsers and can live without Ctrl+Z.

    But in the same way, there are other functions that make perfect sense to others and are completely confusing for me [e.g., mouse gestures or Opera's automatic one-way (but I have no idea which way) sync]. I just glaze over when I try to read about them in the forums. :P



  • @gdveggie:

    Yes, I understand what you're saying now. My early tabbed browser experience was almost exclusively with Olde Opera (starting with v9.20 IIRC), so I have always used Ctrl+Z to undo last tab closure in Opera (when not focused in a editing context) from the beginning and never found it confusing. I missed that Ctrl+Z functionality as I started to explore other tab-browsers, but I gradually got used to Ctrl+Shift+T in other browsers and can live without Ctrl+Z.

    Well, I believe that the CTRL+Z shortcut landed in Opera because it was one of the first multiplatform browsers so it got that shortcut from the Mac platform.

    On the other hand CTRL+SHIFT+T makes sense because the usual meaning of the SHIFT modifier: reversing a shortcut action.

    Say TAB moves the focus to the next field SHIFT+TAB moves the focus to the previous field.

    That said, I don't like it either because I found a three key combination all but a shortcut. Longcut would be a more appropriate description :lol:

    So, my general preference goes to CTRL+ Something to do an action, and ALT + something to reverse it.

    For the record this was the first way used in the MS Dos world. Where CTRL+INS was used to copy and SHIFT+INS was used to paste (and still works nowadays).

    If I'm not wrong the CTRL+C/V comes (again) form the very first MACs



  • @The_Solutor:

    If I'm not wrong the CTRL+C/V comes (again) form the very first MACs

    I was thinking I recalled Ctrl+Z/X/C/V from even earlier in WordStar on CP/M, but a quick check reveals, alas, how much of WordStar's command structure (& similar Apple II word processor commands) I have forgotten.

    Wikipedia's Cut, copy, and paste article appears to confirm your recollection re early Mac (1984) and even earlier Lisa (1983), with some interesting personal history remarks by Larry Tesler on the related discussion page.



  • I've just wanted to write this problem. It's very annoying. :evil:



  • It's annoying. If I click a little fast the backspace key, it causes page back behavior and lost text in text box too.



  • @DrGerry:

    It's annoying. If I click a little fast the backspace key, it causes page back behavior and lost text in text box too.

    Hmmm…? What Vivaldi version and platform?

    With 32-bit Vivaldi v1.0.142.32 on 32-bit Win7 I cannot get the backspace key to cause page back behavior no matter how fast I click, including holding down constantly with maximum repeat rate (30 per second, IIRC).


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