Why lazy tabs?



  • I just took the official feature request poll (Thanks for that, Vivaldi, team!) and was surprised to see so much support for lazy tabs. They've only given me frustration in the past. If you like lazy tabs, could you please give me a reason or two why? I'll tell you why I don't like them below, but I want to know if I'm missing something. I'll often find myself reading some page or another, and I'll middle click links to open new pages and/or pictures in a background tab. When I finish the page I'm on, I'll go see what I opened. I expect everything to be loaded up and instantly viewable/readable when I click. My experience with lazy tabs usually involves a lot of tab switching (i.e., open link, focus on page to get it loading, then back to the article) or a lot of waiting when I'm done and ready to switch from the main article. I don't have blazing fast internet here in my rural community, so maybe that's one consideration. I read something about Chrome (Blink?) implementing "smart lazy tabs" or something, where it would prioritize the loading of background tabs. Better, but I'd still rather things just quietly load in the background so they'll be ready for me when I switch over. What am I missing?



  • I don't know exactly how would they implement this. I'm hoping that lazy tabs are concerning launching browser with tabs from previous session so they wouldn't slow down the browser at launch (when for example you've closed browser having 40-50 tabs open), not the manually selected to open in the background.
    I assume that there should be option to set how many tabs should be loaded at start, because some of us have powerful machines and some don't.



  • OK. That kind of makes sense. I do hope they make it better than nothing loads in background tabs on startup until clicked. After O15 came out, I switched to Sleipnir as my main browser. It has this "feature". Nothing loads on startup except the tab in focus. On startup I end up clicking on whatever tabs are open so they'll start loading while I check my email (first go to; loads fast). I guess I expect background tabs to start loading once the main tab is loaded. I can live with that, if that's the case.

    I have seen this on manually opened tabs in mobile Chrome on my Nexus tablet. I don't care for it.



  • I concur with the OP, lazy tabs for me would be a bug, not a feature… why should I have to click a tab and wait if the browser could have loaded the content for me beforehand? I wonder what are the motivations of the users to vote for this so highly.

    But well, as long as it's optional, to each their own.


  • Vivaldi Translator

    It sounds a lot more useful if loading of background tabs isn't postponed indefinitely, but only until after the current tab is finished and there is sufficient CPU again (and memory). The lazy tabs feature should prevent 100 background tabs from taking the currently focused tab a minute to render, it could prevent the computer from wildly using the page file if memory runs out, but it shouldn't introduce unnecessary delays when focusing each and every background tab on a machine with free resources.

    So the feature makes sense, if only it is implemented with some heuristics instead of "only start processing when focused". If done correctly, it shouldn't even have to get a setting, it should "just work and not get in the way".



  • World is plenty of people who use the cellular connections nowadays,, and most of them are on limited data bundle.

    Lazi tabs are very helpful to limit the data usage.



  • @The_Solutor:

    World is plenty of people who use the cellular connections nowadays,, and most of them are on limited data bundle.

    Lazi tabs are very helpful to limit the data usage.

    But if you're under a limited connection and don't want all those tabs to load, why open them at all?



  • @Al-Khwarizmi:

    @The_Solutor:

    World is plenty of people who use the cellular connections nowadays,, and most of them are on limited data bundle.

    Lazi tabs are very helpful to limit the data usage.

    But if you're under a limited connection and don't want all those tabs to load, why open them at all?

    Maybe because they were opened when you closed the browser ?



  • I see. I'd personally solve that with an option at startup to choose a session or starting with no tabs, but yeah, I see how having the tabs there but not loading could be useful for some people. Makes sense, thanks.



  • Obvious question is "why not?" Isn't Vivaldi supposed to be the browser for browser-savvy settings tweakers? It's an option that's desirable to some people in some situations. If you want a browser that will make all your decisions for you you're probably in the wrong place.

    From what I can tell, Opera 15+ has got all the features described in this thread: lazy tabs are optional, and there's a flag to extend this behavior:

    Extended lazy session loading
    Mac, Windows, Linux
    Changes mode of operation of lazy session loading so that all tabs are gradually loaded in the background. Note: it's in effect only when option "Delay loading of background tabs" (Advanced Settings) is on.
    #extended-lazy-session-loading

    I don't really understand the Opera source situation, so I'm not sure if there's code available for these features already that could be integrated into Vivaldi. Chromium doesn't have any equivalent feature as far as I can tell, so it's apparently an Opera addition, but I have no idea if this is the kind of thing they post on GitHub. Still, in terms of behavior it seems like a reasonable example for Vivaldi to follow in implementing similar: optional lazy tabs and additional optional lazy tab behavior.



  • I hope they implement both options for users to choose, it's available in chropera when you go to opera:flags:

    Those options are for start-up, but I'm not sure if some want it to reflect when opening new tabs, like OP described.
    I think, those should be separated:

    Startup behavior:

    • load tabs progressively in background
    • load only selected (active or current)

    Opening new tabs behavior:

    • don't load until selected
    • load tabs progressively in background (when clicking like mad with middle mouse button on some (porn) images - opening more than 3 in a second)
    • load immediately

    My 2c B)



  • _World is plenty of people who use the cellular connections nowadays,, and most of them are on limited data bundle.

    Lazi tabs are very helpful to limit the data usage._

    OK, I can kind of understand it on mobile startup, but why the clamor for them in the poll about features users want in this (for now) desktop only browser? That's what I'm really scratching my head about.

    If this "feature" is ever implemented, I'm happy that we'll probably have the option to turn it off!



  • It'd be optional, so won't hurt anyone who doesn't want them. Lazy tabs help with faster start-up of the browser. Maybe you have tabs that you don't intend to visit in the current session, but don't want to close because you'll deal with them in the next session. People use tabs in different ways, so the option for lazy tabs might not be for you, but could well be important for others. Saying that, I didn't pick lazy tabs as my three wishes, but won't complain if it's chosen.



  • @maletero:

    _World is plenty of people who use the cellular connections nowadays,, and most of them are on limited data bundle.

    Lazi tabs are very helpful to limit the data usage._

    OK, I can kind of understand it on mobile startup, but why the clamor for them in the poll about features users want in this (for now) desktop only browser? That's what I'm really scratching my head about.

    If this "feature" is ever implemented, I'm happy that we'll probably have the option to turn it off!

    I restart browser really often, and I have slow pc. I see it with Firefox it helps A LOT in startup speed. Browser launches in a split of a second, and moreover I don't kill my modem, which sometimes disconnects when I launch Vivaldi or any other chrome browser. My modem just can't keep up with this many connections. It helps in many ways. I'm 100% sure it will be optional so what's the ruckus about?



  • Also important is the fact that if tabs are only loading when activated that the memory usage of the browser starts out rather "tiny" - lazy tabs feature is important for the ones who like to have countless tabs open.

    Try that with stock Chromium and you are running out of memory soon! And i am not talking about < 50 tabs, i speak about 100-200 ones :D

    I have that amount of tabs open in Palemoon. And if i would not have an add-on installed which prevents the tabs from loading at start-up i would need to wait veeerryyyy long until the browser is usable. So, a hard-coded feature in Vivaldi like that is nothing less as an improvement :)



  • @Sajadi:

    Also important is the fact that if tabs are only loading when activated that the memory usage of the browser starts out rather "tiny" - lazy tabs feature is important for the ones who like to have countless tabs open.

    Try that with stock Chromium and you are running out of memory soon! And i am not talking about < 50 tabs, i speak about 100-200 ones :D

    I have that amount of tabs open in Palemoon. And if i would not have an add-on installed which prevents the tabs from loading at startup i would need to wait veeerryyyy long until the browser is usable. So, a hardcoded feature in Vivaldi like that is nothing less as improvement :)

    hahahahaha! 200 tabs is nothing for me :evil:
    Those are numbers I run daily in Firefox. On the left are Panorama's groups names, on the right are the numbers of currently opened tabs.

    [attachment=736]beat_that.jpg[/attachment]
    Attachments:



  • … An exactly so very much that is the reason why loading all open tabs at once during browser start is not recommended ;)



  • @RRR13:

    I think the better option would be to have specific options on how the lazy loading should work (load on activate, load after previous one finishes loading, etc).

    +1 on this.



  • I personally prefer my tabs being loaded when I start the app, i find it a little annoying, when switching to a tab and then watch it load… I'd like the option to turn that "feature" off.....

    alternatively, if the "feature" is on... the option (by right click of any tab), have a menu option to 'load all other tabs', or "reload all other tabs" (but not reload the tab you're on, to which was a right click option of opera 12..



  • @maletero I am using my cell phone as a mobile hotspot -- there is no wifi in sight. I am on a 3G mobile network with limited and EXPENSIVE bandwidth doing real work on my laptop running the DESKTOP version of Chrome. When i open Chrome, all of the damn tabs are automatically trying to connect to the internet -- downloading tons of useless data for this particular work session. Normally, at home on my high-speed unlimited cable connection, no problem. But on my tethered 3G mobile connection, extremely painful, annoying and slow. And please do not tell me to "close my tabs". How about you put a garbage bag over your head ... if you find that suggestion stupid, then you know how i feel when you say "close your tabs". May i suggest to everyone that does not understand the importance of lazy tabs to just stop posting hypothetical comments and useless "solutions" to a real problem that you are not experienced with and apparently cannot understand. I created an account to make this post ... that's how annoyed i am reading the comments up here.


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