I had the impression Vivaldi was going to Opera 12 only Better

  • Reading around the web back in early 2015 about Vivaldi. How it was going to be the new Opera 12 only better. I downloaded it and it was pretty buggie at the the time. I pass it off as being new. 2 weeks ago I downloaded the latest version. Quickly learn, I was sadly mistaken. Vivaldi doesn't have the feel nor look of Opera. I'm not talking about whats under the hood, be it Presto are not. Customizing is lacking with Vivaldi. Appearance with buttons, tool bars and panels is no where to be found. Preferences, more the advance area is the same way. A big one for me is tabs, I don't use them I use windows. Things I can't do there, I change in opera:config. I've carried over a old theme well before Opera 12 or 11 because, I like it. Grabbing things in cache I want to keep. Dragonfly is another thing that's rescued me over the years. I guess my question is, Vivaldi going to get to that stage? If not, I'll just pass on it. Right now IMO, it just feels to me like another warmed over Google. The same as Opera version 35, 68, 77 whatever it's up to. I do hope I'm wrong about Vivaldi!

  • Hello, and welcome to our community!

    It took Opera Software 16 years (1996-2012) to get to Opera 12. Vivaldi's first stable version was released in April 2016 (exactly 7 months ago).

    Rest assured that many features that you miss will come back. There will also be new and innovative features that Opera did not have. But it takes time.

    Please be patient with Vivaldi. And hopefully, one day, you'll have fun browsing again.

  • I'm not a Mod, nor an Admin, but merely a private end-user who discovered V in Feb 2015 early, instantly saw its marvellous potential, & a fortnight later made Vivaldi my default browser. Even though it remained buggy, crashy, & still lacked much key functionality at that stage, it already had enough Pros compared to Pale Moon, Chromium & Opera Dev that it was worthwhile for me in taking that step. Like so many others, i had still been pining the effective demise of Opera 12.x back then, had tried & rejected a swag of chromium & mozilla-esque contenders/pretenders, was becoming more & more disillusioned with Opera 15+, & was quite despairing of to what to turn. Thence came Vivaldi, & there was Much Rejoicing [at least by this little black duck]. I do find it amusing/perplexing when the occasional newbie comes by here & bags V in comparison to O12... already so very much has been achieved by so few in such a very short time. One really does need to keep a sense of perspective [so maybe a visit to the Total Perspective Vortex?].
    Tower's SSD OS = Linux Mint x64 17.3 KDE 4.14.2. [< 26/9/16]; Maui 2 "Blue Tang" x64 Plasma 5.8.2.
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  • @RVieira said in I had the impression Vivaldi was going to Opera 12 only Better:

    It took Opera Software 16 years (1996-2012) to get to Opera 12. Vivaldi's first stable version was released in April 2016 (exactly 7 months ago).

    This is the part that excites me. Vivaldi has given us an amazing browser in a very short time. The rapid pace of improvement indicates the browser will exceed expectations.

  • for me, vivaldi got some facilties that opera 12.17 was not having... but vivaldi seem to be ever 'in the belly of it's mother' the last integration seems not to be finalized (with the ten process open in the task manager (is that really normal ?? no other soft do me that)

    be patient... nothings compare to Vivaldi... opera is on it's favourite armchair looking out behind it's curtains something to happened... and the other based on chromium are just post cards when you need a book or a real ans complete how-to...

    just on thing, vivaldi is manifestly slower than others, presto 12.17 still run and nothing compare it's console or javascript debugger... dragonfly... simple to catch errors in my code-stuff.htm

    just have to wait the baby fnis=hed to learn walking to escape to it's parent an run runrun :o)

  • I like Vivaldi but it is too immature at this point. I've had for quite awhile and I agree it gets better all the time but it has very, very far to go and I question if it is even possible for it to go far since it is based on Chrome. It uses the Windows cert store which is ridiculous IMO as it surprised me that Chrome browser married IE in that respect. I have only 35 root certs in IE/Windows store and I cannot get any root cert updates. That did not matter to me in the past because I have not used IE browser hardly EVER as I was a Netscape user in 1999 when I got my first computer and then a Mozilla Suite user and then Firefox beginning with Phoenix version. I haven't used Windows Updates since 2004 when I began manually downloading Windows security patches each month and using Microsoft Download Center for the rare other downloads I needed.

    Windows 8.0 Pro came with 35 root certs approximately for IE 10. I didn't do the update to 300 plus certs that WAS in the Microsoft Updates Catalog a couple of years ago as I don't use IE and I didn't want all those certs from Europe, etc. that I would not ever need. Now I need some of them for Vivaldi but Windows Updates Catalog has very recently removed all root cert updates for Windows 8 and 8.1. It is not my ineptness in searching Windows Update Catalog either as my IT friends also cannot find any Windows 8 or 8.1 root cert updates now. Using Mcrosoft's own links in their support article on root cert updates for Windows that supposedly includes Windows 8/8.1, I can as of yesterday only find two root cert updates and those are for Windows 2000!

    I have to use Opera 12.18 to be able to reach Vivaldi forums. IE 10 does not have the root cert from GlobalSign. I was able to use the Windows Certificate Manager to install the intermediate cert from GlobalSign website into IE/Windows cert store but the root cert will not install...says it has installed but it hasn't. My Gecko browsers (four of them) don't use IE/Windows cert store so I have all GlobalSign certs installed for them. I also have them installed on Opera 12.18. It gives me a bad feeling as far as Vivaldi ever being for knowledgeable users since you have based it on the most unfriendly to knowledgeable users browser ever created Google Chrome and the second worst one IE. Tying Vivaldi to IE/Windows certs store gives me a bad taste in my mouth even if I had all the needed certs.

  • Moderator

    @Desiree Yes, Opera 12 and Mozillas have their certificate store. Vivaldi as a Chromium-child not. Thaymay result in problems.

    But it was your decision to skip certificate updates in your old Windows. Don't blame Vivaldi.net for using webservers which use modern and valid certificates.

    You need these certificates for vivaldi .net:

    You can download and add them to your Windows certificate store.

    But it would be better to ask for more help in a separate thread.

  • @Desiree, "Knowledgeable" users should not disable or fail to keep auto-updated their OS certificate stores unless they know how to manually keep their certs up to speed. For one thing, they would be sure to install update 3004394 that enables urgent auto-updates for the Windows Root Cert Program (else revoked/compromised certs can't be quickly killed in the store). However, that update requires a prerequisite cumulative security/non-security update 2919355. Key point: once you start picking and choosing which cert updates and related KB's to install, it becomes a slippery slope downward to functional obsolescence. While I share many users' suspicions about Windows Update (especially in recent years), it is the mechanism for keeping the OS cert store up to date, so the Win update service should be shut completely off only with knowledgeable caution.

  • @Quetzal (with the ten process open in the task manager (is that really normal ?? no other soft do me that)

    Then you probably did never install Chromium or Chrome or the the non-Presto Opera or the Yandex browser etc.pp. All chromium based browsers do that. (Chromium is not Chrome, it is the basis for Chrome too, but not the same)

    It has some advantages and some disadvantages:

    • Sandboxing aof pages is easier and safer, meaning Cross Site attacks are much harder that way.
    • The browser should not crash if a single page crashes (yes, sometimes it still does, but it is very rare)
    • With the browser integrated task manager (see help -> tools or press Shift+Esc) you can kill a page running wild.

    ... and some other neat stuff that might be a bit more difficult with other concepts.

    Unofficial hint:
    If you often open multiple different tabs of one site, you can reduce the number of processes and the memory load by starting Vivaldi with the command line switch --process-per-site which combines all stuff coming from pages of the same site / domain to one single process.

    It should be fairly stable, I am using it since about a year now and haven't seen any drawbacks so far, but use this at your own risk!

  • @Blackbird Update 2010355 pertains to Windows 8.1. I have Windows 8.0 because I am not insane enough to install 8.1 and then endure Microsoft trying to force me to get Windows 10 and trying to force more spyware tomorrow on 8.1 and Windows 7 users. (Besides, 8.0 is a far superior OS to 8.1 where Microsoft has got its tentacles even deeper into the OS so you can't remove all those worthless Metro apps and have them really, actually removed and not just hidden). I've been able to avoid all that horrific insanity and totally unethical behavior by Microsoft by staying with 8.0 Pro.

    I need to install the Root Cert update from Nov 2013. It was in the Microsoft Update Catalog. I downloaded it earlier this year. I did not install it then though as I had no need for it as I did not have Vivaldi and I don't use IE. It was downloaded to my D drive and that drive is by crappy Seagate. It died a few months ago with no warning. I had tested it a few days earlier and it was fine. That is the second crappy Seagate data drive Dell has sent me as the first one died within one year also and without warning. In 18 years, I've never had a hard drive die before these two and I lost that Root Cert update and everything else on my D drive. Now, Microsoft has removed that update from the Update Catalog. There was a later root cert update for Windows 8 in March 2014 which Microsoft removed some time ago and never said why so the latest root cert update for IE 10 is the Nov 2013 one.

    I didn't turn anything off and I have no idea why you think I have been irresponsible here. Microsoft is the irresponsible, bordering on criminal, entity here not me. Microsoft appears to have removed ALL root certs updates for all OSes in the past few days save two for Windows 2000.

    I don't need any of those 300+ certs EXCEPT the one Vivaldi uses. My IT friends who just got the root certs for Vista installed via command line - all 360 plus now have to spend a lot of time untrusting most of those certs. As I said Vivaldi has tied itself too closely to Microsoft which is a shame. But then I get the impression from the moderator here that Vivaldi looks down its nose at any user not on Windows 10 which I will never use. So, maybe I don't like Vivaldi as much as I thought I did if that is the prevalent attitude here.

    Then there is the issue of extended validation cert which is way, way, way overkill for login for a forum! Geez. I generally avoid any sites that think they can puff themselves up by using overkill like that. I'm against the internet going to all secure sites anyway as only banking sites and a few others need to be fully ssl and certainly no forum needs that.

  • @Desiree, I never said you were "irresponsible"; I did reference your use of the term "knowledgeable". What happened to your D-drive was unfortunate, and I can empathize with the problems it's caused you. However, continuing to use an OS stated by its maker to be obsolete and unsupported (ie, Win8.0) requires a truly knowledgeable user to take special care to preserve that OS by their own effort, which among other things means making multiple full-drive image backups on different media (at least one of which is removeable and preferably stored off-site), repeated at periodic intervals to assure currency of data, settings, app installations, downloads, and configurations. If the data matters, then it must all be backed up.

    I incorrectly assumed from your first post that you were now using 8.1, which (had it been true) would have required deliberate effort on your part to block the Win updating service (updating which, in 8.1, would have assured the cert store was kept current). When you chose to not accept Microsoft's update from 8.0 to 8.1, you walled yourself off from a number of things thereafter (intentionally or otherwise), once MS began obsoleting the 8.0 version. One thing Microsoft has been doing of late is pruning their update archives, especially those pertaining to obsolete OS's.

  • Moderator

    @Desiree said in I had the impression Vivaldi was going to Opera 12 only Better:

    But then I get the impression from the moderator here that Vivaldi looks down its nose at any user not on Windows 10 which I will never use.

    My fault if you felt offended. Mea culpa. I apologize.

    Windows 10 has much bad attitudes related to update and privacy. So don't use it to gain all control over your favorite OS.

    But you need updated certificates as signing ciphers may change or CA certs loose validity or may be distrusted like Wosign and StartSSL.
    If you want only some selected Root CA certificates that's ok. Your problem is that your OS has not updated the certificates. So you have to update the certificates by hand to have full control.
    If you distrust Microsoft you should never download root certificates from MS sites, fetch them from the Root Certificate Authority which is missing.

    I am very astonished why you run into problems with your knowledge.

  • Moderator

    @Desiree said in I had the impression Vivaldi was going to Opera 12 only Better:

    Then there is the issue of extended validation cert which is way, way, way overkill for login for a forum!

    That is your personal opinion to dislike the use of EV certs.
    Overkill? May be some strong ciphers on forums are SSL overkill, too. What do you think, do forums need such high level of encryption for login?

    The SSO login page has a good certificate because it will be used for more services in future.

  • @RVieira Thanks for your reply. I didn't post here to start a disagreement or argument. My intent was, to find out which way development was going with Vivaldi? If it wants to go the way of Google that's great but, its not for me. I also stated, some of the things I like and miss from Opera. I didn't knock Vivaldi and still won't. I want it to be better than everyone else. You said, "Please be patient with Vivaldi. And hopefully, one day, you'll have fun browsing again." That's what I'll do! Thanks again.
    BTW: Those 16 years you talked about. In 1999, I went from Netscape to Opera 3 some-tin and never looked back. Even putting up with the free ad based Opera browser.

  • there're still problems going on but the team needs more time and our support. Everything so far is fine for me, those bugs are not really annoying and I can get around but the biggest problem I have with the new snapshots is that after awhile there will be too many processes and the pagefile usage is just too high and keeps increasing. I hope this can be fixed soon, for now I'll stick to an old version but Vivaldi still remains as my main browser. I also really want to see new features that the team will give us in the future.


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