Best browser of the year 2015
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Blackbird:
I agree with everything you have written, even down to the snail's pace development of Otter. I've been following it since its first alpha release, and it seems to have barely left the starting blocks.
One of the strengths of the old Opera, was its nearly infinite configurability. I'm not sure that level of customization is (or really ever was?) absolutely necessary, but one thing is for sure: Whatever your workflow was, you could make that browser fit it. When Opera 15 et seq came along, I had no option but to closely attend to exactly WHAT options or configurations I ABSOLUTELY needed to optimize my work flow, and I settled on: (and this is for me - it would probably differ for others) Email permanently visible at the left, browser window in the middle, tabs on right, bookmark bar on right. That's it. that's all I need. But do you think I could re-create that in the current browser market? Absolutely not. The closest I came was Firefox/Pale Moon, but I just could not, could not, could not get comfortable in those browsers.
Now with Vivaldi, I have hope that my old level of comfort may return.
Let me just mention, by way of trying to point out HOW important it was for me to try to get my old style of working back: I have 24 items pinned on my taskbar. Eight of them are browsers or browser versions. Three of them are email clients. One is Evernote (would I need that if I had a browser that synced notes across platforms?), one is notepad (really? Is it THAT hard to make a browser that offers the option to copy and paste unformatted?), then there's googleearth, some image processing software, an office-type suite, a web-based phone app, my accounting software, etc. But can you see what I NEED to work daily? Why else would I have eight browsers and three email apps? Why? If Vivaldi works out, those eleven (maybe even twelve including Evernote) pinned apps will be pared down to ONE. ONE. C'mon Vivaldi. Save me.
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Oh, and let me say, in the age of everything-is-free software, and ads and tracking pay for everything, I paid FIFTY BUCKS for one of those email programs because it syncs with my Google Calendar and Contacts, and does not suffer the infirmities and hassle of Thunderbird. I would pay similarly for Vivaldi if it would take on calendaring and contact syncing.
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Don’t feed the troll guys !!!
LOL… look, whoever you are... if you don't want to respond to my posts - don't. Simple as that. But don't presume to tell everyone here what he/she should or shouldn't do and don't assume I am trolling because I happen to hold a differing opinion than your own. In general (not saying this is the case here) those who resort to labeling others as trolls are incapable of defending their own positions with reasoned arguments and without malice or anger towards those who hold other opinions. You appear to be wanting in this so you might want to remove yourself from the ongoing discussion. Just a suggestion.
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I will just mention that my business is conducted over email, myself and all my customers use it heavily, and the addition of email to Vivaldi, assuming it is integrated in much the same way it was in old Opera, would be a near guarantee that I would use the browser exclusively forever.
Old Opera had me as a loyal user for life beginning with ver. 6, until it ceased to provide the elements necessary for my optimum workflow. I know that the browser is the actual work platform for only a minority of users, but for us who do use it that way, and who receive and deliver all work via email, we could hardly have a better option than to use a browser with email integrated into it, and with the possibility to optimize workspace on a wide monitor by eliminating vertically stacked toolbars and making use of vertically-oriented elements placed at the sides.
My $.02. And this being the case, Vivaldi offers me the most promise at the moment.
You're a special case, Ayespy (great name by the way) and I'm sure there are others whose business requirements are assisted by integrated mail. My guess is that this is not so much the case in 2015 as it was in 1995. BTW… have you tried Seamonkey which also has integrated mail and the host of Mozilla extensions?
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Y'see, by mentioning SeaMonkey, you demonstrate that you either don't know anything about SeaMonkey or haven't actually read what I have written here. What I need (email permanently visible at the left side of the display) is not possible in SeaMonkey. I'm not entirely certain, not having tried to install the extensions, that tabs and bookmarks bar, vertical on the right, are possible either. Then of course, there is the fact that SeaMonkey's email client is a poor boy's version of Thunderbird which, on its best day, is not suitable for my needs. SeaMonkey literally not only offers no more than separate mail and browser packages but actually offers LESS for my purposes, as it is not possible to see both the web client and the mail client at the same time in its UI - whereas, by using non-maximized windows, I can do that with separate apps now.
It's true, I AM a special case, and there are millions (literally) of special cases out here, none of whom are fully served by the current buffet of Mozilla and WebKit browsers. This is where Vivaldi (and formerly old Opera) may come in, able to be adapted to the needs of millions and millions of "special cases." We special cases, though not members of the herd, the mob, the madding crowd, the what-have-you, need love, too. and because of this there is a place for niche browsers. It's a large enough place to keep a smart man in business. And if your browser is good ENOUGH, it can grow beyond the niche - in spite of the fact that it has, hidden within it, gems that the common user may never need, understand, or discover.
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Oh, I read your posts above but being unfamiliar with Seamonkey (other than knowing it had integrated mail) I had no notion of just how specialized your needs are. Bear in mind that my own needs more closely approximate the hundreds of millions of users out there (those who do NOT require integrate mail) and so I simply offered the only other suite I knew. I find it odd that only the discontinued Opera, Vivaldi and Seamonkey are the ONLY suites out there giving integrated mail when the need, according to you and others, is so great. My guess is that the need is actually not so pressing or solutions would have been offered ages ago by the big companies. And knowing that many would NOT be willing to shell out money as you, my guess is that Vivaldi is in for an uphill struggle in terms of financing this project over the long haul.
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The need is not so great in relative terms, oddly, but only in absolute terms. There are only a few million of us, which is a drop in the bucket of the browser market. However, some small concern could easily make a living just off of this small drop (relatively) because a few pennies a day from each of millions of customers is much more than nothing.
You see, there's scale, and then there's scale. I only have a few hundred clients, and about 5% of them give me 95% of my business. My number of clients are an immeasurably small percentage of the total number of customers in my field, yet here I am, making a living.
As we special cases are just a drop in the browser-user bucket, the big boys feel totally comfortable ignoring us entirely. Take, for instance, the Google reaction to literally thousands of blog comments begging for side tabs. They could care less. Thousands is nothing to them. Similarly, Opera feels safe ignoring hundreds of such request on their blogs. "Not enough" demand apparently. The vast majority of Vivalidi users, however, will be users who are THRILLED with this development, and there are already comments on the Chrome blogs advising users to drop chrome and come here, because Vivaldi cares about side tabs. Thousands is a foundation for millions. Catch my drift?
The idea of email integration is also entertained in exensible Mozilla browsers by the way, with a little extension called SimpleMail - which is a multi-account POP and MAPI client that can be installed in Firefox, Pale Moon and any number of others, but is HORRIBLY inefficient and resource-draining, and occupies browser bandwidth. I experimented with it for a while, but was sorely disappointed. People, hundreds of thousands of them, with simpler email requirements than mine, use it happily every day. But Vivaldi, I'm confident, will do it better. SimpleMail users are potential vivaldi users.
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Congrats to the Designers and Developers for producing a GEM (in terms of features right out of the box) of a Browser! :cheer:
How I found this browser? Well here is the story..
I had submitted 3 feature requests to the Opera Developer Team hoping to get some reply but as we know how stubborn the Opera Management / developers have become, I was quite sure that there won't be any response. That is exactly what happened.
So I set on extension(s) hunt that will fulfill or is close to what I was looking for and thus I came across this wonderful browser and found that my all three requests are already implemented and I became the Vivaldi fan at that very moments
There are certain things that any browser must provide to it's users right out of the box. It was shocking (I am using Opera since 1998 as my primary browser) to see new opera dropping the Bookmarks functionality ! Come on opera how insane you can be? I still wonder what was going in their head when they took such stupid decision and then hoping that it will be adopted / liked by the users.
A small request to the Vivaldi Team –---- Please never lock any thread no matter how weird some user's request may be or even if someone criticize your browser (but of course you should take care of any comment, topic or request if abusive language is used)
There will always be an argument that's it's freeware and one should be happy with what they are getting ! Yes it's true it's freeware but it is also true that it's not the only freeware. One can get the required functionality by using extensions. But the fact of the extension's is that they ultimately slow down the browser and make them crawl ! (this is my opinion and I understand not everyone views the extensions like I do. Everyone has a right to differ with my views)
Thank you & Great Job !
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The real reason why Opera was unpopular is that it had rendering issue not because it engine was badly coded but because it was the only browser in the initial days of "browser war" which was 100 % (or nearly) standards compliant. But in those early days Microsoft used to rule the Internet. Obviously they wanted their browser (IE) is used by majority of the people, any company would like to see that happening, but not everyone had the power to do that.
Microsoft had money, had power to influence the masses. They directly / indirectly forced the various site developers to code specifically for IE only. If any other browser was detected, the site developers would either ignore the request or send wrong data (slightly modified). When you are coding as per standards only and receive a malformed / modified data, you are going to have issues with rendering. As a result you may see that a check-box, edit-box is missing or button click are not responding, the whole layout of the site is messed up causing stability issues and crashes etc. No user want's to see that especially for the banking and financial transactions. It can cause privacy and security issues.
Average users are least bothered (nothing wrong on their part) about the real reasons why the sites they like to visit are not rendered properly. Everyone wants to see their favorite site rendered properly. So if opera is not showing me my favorite site properly then either you accept it or switch to another browser that is displaying the site properly.
Similar thing happened with Netscape Navigator, it was in minority, developers were still coding for IE as a result it died prematurely. Later on when Firefox started to rise, developers who were fed up with Microsoft strategies / policies started coding for Firefox too. Opera was still ignored since it market share (desktop) was still mere 1.5% to 2% after 8-9 years in existence. When this happens then anyone will think why is opera not gaining the market share if they claim their browser is better than the rest? Are they telling lies? And if you ask others why they are not picking up, it is very likely you would be told that the browser is good but crashes a lot and do not render all sites properly. You do not want the browser to crash while you are in the middle of some financial transaction.
Marketing was definitely one of the reasons why opera could not pick up. Opera was a small privately held company based in Norway only (may be one or two development center outside, not sure). This is the reason opera was once a shareware.
Having said the above there is no doubt that opera too made some major mistakes. The biggest of them was the "extension train (sic)" . By the time they realized that it was too late. Their initial attempt to gain back some users with the support of widgets backfired. To be honest widgets were primitive compared to Firefox and Chrome extensions and had very limited functionality. Their later attempt to gain back users through genuine opera extensions is decent but again too be honest they still lack the WOW appeal and crispness (sic) of Firefox and Chrome extensions. For an analogy consider why Apple succeeded so much? In my opinion more than anything else it's the "Appstore" where users can find so many application to enhance their user experience. There are other reasons too but this one is the most important.
As for whether the features like mail, notes, bookmarks, speed dial and even a multi-threaded download manager, etc should be right out of the box functionality should be there or not as one can find extensions that does the job very well, will always be debatable, but in my opinion the above mentioned 4-5 features should be right out of the box and install other features as per the need. The best option would be is to provide these features as native implementation but give a choice to the user if they wish to install these features or not. If I remember properly, Netscape Navigator did had an option about whether the user wants to install mail client or not.
Bare bone browsers are tempting but what most users don't seems to realize that adding features through extensions comes with a price, it can / does make the browser slow. Can compromise security and privacy. If someone thinks that it is my unnecessary concern, then please let it be !
It is also true that over the years opera started falling behind others when it comes to implementation of web standards.
Despite all this Opera 12.17 is still the best browser I had ever used. It is a real challenge for Vivaldi to surpass everything opera had provided over the years. I am positive that one day it will be the case
PS - Use of word "you" or "your" is generic. Also my comment is a very simplistic view on why opera failed to capture the market share. There surely are many more reasons which I do not know. So everyone is free to agree or disagree with my views.
Thank you
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I think my posts have been unhelpful so I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone. I truly do hope that Vivaldi can "pull it off" as it were. Good luck and best wishes.
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Hello,
- Make this browser fast and lightweight,
- Strive for a User Interface that is consistent but discreet when browsing,
- Propose a portable version,
- Give users the opportunity to customize it all around the place (buttons, menu, colours, short-cuts …),
- Support in depth "tweakability" without the cost of complexity,
- Mouse interaction is easy but keyboard oriented commands could be so much faster ( zoom, download, view image, copy address, follow link ...),
- Provide a real documentation (note the usual wiki never updated or that just scratch the surface),
- E-mail client : allow user to choose whether she / he wants to activate it (Don't make this final, one may always change his mind).
- Make it Donation-Ware so that I can show that I like it.
- Keep the good work.
Many thanks.
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Vivaldi should have a good shot at engaging the other browsers in the browser wars.
After just a day's time playing around with Vivaldi, I'm struck by how it seems to have such a pleasant feel about it. The speed dial looks and feels better than the old Opera one. It's very smooth and accommodating. There was a little bad press on another site, by people calling Vivaldi just another Chrome clone. Chrome has never given me the smooth "road handling" pleasures that Vivaldi already has in a day. I think the bloke who made the comment hadn't even tried this browser.
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Hello,
- Make this browser fast and lightweight,
- Strive for a User Interface that is consistent but discreet when browsing,
- Propose a portable version,
- Give users the opportunity to customize it all around the place (buttons, menu, colours, short-cuts …),
- Support in depth "tweakability" without the cost of complexity,
- Mouse interaction is easy but keyboard oriented commands could be so much faster ( zoom, download, view image, copy address, follow link ...),
- Provide a real documentation (note the usual wiki never updated or that just scratch the surface),
- E-mail client : allow user to choose whether she / he wants to activate it (Don't make this final, one may always change his mind).
- Make it Donation-Ware so that I can show that I like it.
- Keep the good work.
Many thanks.
That's quite a list of "demands." And you're willing to pay how much for this browser suite? $50? $75? $100? Donationware you say? Ah… so you can pay $5? $12? $15? LOL
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Vivaldi should have a good shot at engaging the other browsers in the browser wars.
After just a day's time playing around with Vivaldi, I'm struck by how it seems to have such a pleasant feel about it. The speed dial looks and feels better than the old Opera one. It's very smooth and accommodating. There was a little bad press on another site, by people calling Vivaldi just another Chrome clone. Chrome has never given me the smooth "road handling" pleasures that Vivaldi already has in a day. I think the bloke who made the comment hadn't even tried this browser.
Maybe. But then again… one day of usage hardly makes much of a test run in order to make such a definitive statement. Give it a couple of months and THEN evaluate it. It's far, far too early to make claims that this alpha browser is up to the likes of Chrome.
This is where I sort of lose it and why I sometimes come across a bit harsh. I understand enthusiasm but childish claims and hysterical statements are simply over the top and aren't really helpful to anyone.
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Maybe. But then again… one day of usage hardly makes much of a test run in order to make such a definitive statement.
It actually does.
The experienced user base has usually a good taste.
Really, isn't that hard to understand what is a feature that needs to be improved from a wrong direction.
I use internet since '98 on many platforms, because of my works and my hobbies, and in that timeframe hardly I changed my mind after few hours of testing.
I didn't like Firefox when it was still called Phoenix and I don't like It nowadays, I liked opera when I tested it, at the end of last millennium, and I still like Opera now.
Opium was a special case as I understood what's going on the day it was announced, the day I tested it (some months later) I just got a confirm of what I thought (and what I wrote on the opera blog).
After almost a couple of years (and a zillion of pointless version numbers) I still have to change my mind.
Opium is just "yet another browser", it feels way better than Chrome, It feels way worse than Opera and Vivaldi.
Back to vivaldi I'm already in love with it. If this is a problem for you, just give up and choose another browser, is plenty of them out there.
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Maybe. But then again… one day of usage hardly makes much of a test run in order to make such a definitive statement.
It actually does.
The experienced user base has usually a good taste.
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Actually, it doesn't and an experienced user would know this. Please, think before you speak. You CANNOT make such a definitive statement about Vivaldi after one day of testing. Anyone who has a clear, unbiased mind will tell you that. You see… when you and he make outlandish statements like this, you lose all credibility. I "hope" Vivaldi can live up to our expectations but so far I have serious reservations. It's slow and already I've run into a few hang-ups. We'll see how things go with the next few weekly updates.
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I think it's interesting how people evaluate software based on their needs, their experience, and their skill level. I've read glowing endorsements and scathing condemnations of the exact same software on the exact same platform, in a single string of reviews dated mere days apart - and most of these are written after rather brief usage.
In my case, I'm optimistic but cautious because I know too well what can go wrong (it has, after all, gone wrong on every browser in the world to date). I essentially only need three more things (stability on my research sites, vertical bookmark bar and sound email client) and I am THERE. I don't need special keyboard shortcuts, developer tools, particular color or font handling, special and fancy search tools, etc. I just need three pretty boring an non-technical things.
But what if it takes forever for them to come to Vivaldi, or what if they never come? It's one more (wow! promising!) look at a browser that ultimately disappoints. I give myself a better than even chance of getting what I want in this instance, but you never know. And even after my every desire for a browser is totally satisfied, there will still be people complaining bitterly about how dense and evil the developers of the browser are, for not putting their particular desires foremost. Further, there will be users calling each other the most extreme names for having opposing opinions.
It's an interesting dynamic to watch.
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, Chrome's and Firefox's phenomenal rise in its user base is due to the unbelievable marketing and advertising that they do
Yes!
Chrome and Firefox have rocketed to the astronomical number of users worldwide that they currently have because they give the average user what he wants
No!
FF became big because they borrowed their key features from Opera and had much better marketing!
Chrome became big because Google is big, and could afford the marketing and product pushing! -
You see… when you and he make outlandish statements like this, you lose all credibility.
Come on !! Everyone here thinks you are just trolling. And I should be worried about MY credibility ? :blink: :lol:
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Maybe. But then again… one day of usage hardly makes much of a test run in order to make such a definitive statement.
It actually does.
The experienced user base has usually a good taste.
Really, isn't that hard to understand what is a feature that needs to be improved from a wrong direction.
I use internet since '98 on many platforms, because of my works and my hobbies, and in that timeframe hardly I changed my mind after few hours of testing.
I didn't like Firefox when it was still called Phoenix and I don't like It nowadays, I liked opera when I tested it, at the end of last millennium, and I still like Opera now.
Opium was a special case as I understood what's going on the day it was announced, the day I tested it (some months later) I just got a confirm of what I thought (and what I wrote on the opera blog).
After almost a couple of years (and a zillion of pointless version numbers) I still have to change my mind.
Opium is just "yet another browser", it feels way better than Chrome, It feels way worse than Opera and Vivaldi.
Back to vivaldi I'm already in love with it. If this is a problem for you, just give up and choose another browser, is plenty of them out there.
Yes, I was describing a first impression. We can have a really over the top first impression at the car dealership. Often we end up buying the car. Is that childish?
I'm nowhere saying that the internals of the program are already up to snuff. But I can tell when the touchy-feely sense is nice. It doesn't take a day for me to decide on the attractiveness of a woman, for example. Women, cars, browsers. Same first impression type, but different after a dance or two. First glance - I'll take this one on a date.