Zen browser, An advanced modern Firefox fork with a beautiful Apple-like interface
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I've been using Vivaldi for some months. I don't even have clear memory of installing it but I just have it as my default. The features are great and the community ( vivaldi.net ) is irreplaceable. Userblogs can't be found in ANY OTHER BROWSER. But I hate contributing to Google's monopoly on browser engine. Of course Vivaldi is my indispensable default browser and I like Tony
alot but browser Engine variety is a big deal so I've been searching for a browser on a level close to Vivaldi's functionality.First there was Floorp. Floorp is so close it even has a status bar. For RSS, there's the RSS Preview extension to detect RSS Feeds and Feedbro of which r/Unixporn, r/unixart and r/Desktops images are fully displayed unlike Vivaldi where images are tiny. But bruh, it's based on FIREFOX 115 ESR while FF Nightly is twice the version and whose main browser has the name better suited to a detergent. Opening that browser just makes me replace Harpic in harpic toilet detergent advertisements with Floorp branding in day dreams and it fits too perfectly. I would rather wash the toilet or my clothes with that name (SunLight) rather than browse the web with it. On the other hand, Vivaldi gives classical vibes. It's just a great name. I open Vivaldi browser, open YT and search for Antonio Vivaldi's Banger La Folia or The Four Seasons and then leave it in the background while getting on with business. The beauty of being Vivaldi.
And then there comes Zen.
Based on Firefox 128 ESR and in it's Alpha stages. New kid on the block. If Arc and FF had a baby, it would be Zen. Most importantly It supports Firefox Extensions which are infinitely better than Chrome's (I don't know why people keep blowing the trumpet of the Chrome Web Store when Firefox addons are a giant leap forward for more than just privacy).
Web panels & sidebar, workspaces/tab groups, FF's Responsive web design mode, FF Devtools, Split view, Beautiful UI including redone and beautiful About:pages. Oh and Zen is a great addition to the Based Firefox Fork Name Library aka B.F.F.N.L. (LibreWolf, Firefox, WaterFox, Mullvad, Tor).
Some things are incomplete or missing.
If the user right-clicks the sidebar to customize it, it disappears and the only remaining thing is the addressbar without the tab bar like in a userChromed Firefox. The menubar is gone with Zen and I think this has to do with it having its tabs like Arc bc on Firefox the menubar would be above the tab bar. It's a one-man project although it's FOSS (Hear that Vivaldi Team). The Workspaces feature is very rudimentary compared to simple tab groups as you cannot manage the tabs and workspaces like in Simple Tab Groups or The Window Panel in Vivaldi. TST hasn't been implemented natively since you can't nest tabs. There's no notes app and there's no real extension to substitute for this. You can't manually hibernate tabs like in Vivaldi. You can't select Individual tabs in the context menu (Selected tabs are the only ones you can split and rightly so; I assumed they didn't change Firefox's context menu). You can't change to horizontal tabs, I guess it's gonna be the Arc of Gecko-based browsers. There's no built-in adblocker or default bundling with uBlock Origin so I got to see a YT ad first in a LONG time. It's not as private as Librewolf and has little hardening but disables PPA and sending technical and interaction data by default. I don't like FF's task manager since it looks very cluttered unlike Vivaldi and Chromium-based browsers in general which don't need my eyes to focus alot to see what's going on so I hope that will change in the future. Firefox branding hasn't been totally removed like in the About pages address bar, on the actual installer, in About:Logo.I can excuse all these issues since the first public release was 28 DAYS AGO and updates are for the most part daily meaning stuff's been fixed daily.
I couldn't be more excited for the rise of Gecko-BASED browsers.
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Although based on different grounds, I am also looking for an alternative to Vivaldi, passively though... Thus thanks for sharing your thoughts on Zen.
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I like Zen, but it's unlikely that it will ever become my default browser. I switched to Firefox Nightly a long time ago, but I'm still looking at other browsers. Sidebery replaces workspaces, tab groups, and vertical tabs for me. I'm already used to exist without web panels, but someday I'll finally write userChrome JS script to implement this feature in Firefox. A beautiful UI? Maybe, but it breaks all extensions that use the Theme API, it's the wrong decision. In addition, there is a userChrome CSS. Split View? I played with it a couple of times, but I didn't find anything useful for myself. I don't think Zen will be able to offer me anything that will make me use it.
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@aminought The good thing about Zen is the defaults. I need to spend a day just to make Firefox tolerable.
Zen just does the most for me. I just installed Nightly because I'm waiting for the army of Firefox engineers to release that fancy new Settings UI after Zen did that but I had to hack Firefox just so it could be tolerable. 5 extensions + CSS installed for a basic (IMO) modern browser experience !!!
And Zen has its own themes in the theme store so it does not need to use the same as Firefox. Same as how Vivaldi does not use the same theming as Chrome or Brave and so on and so forth. The only big issue is that being a young project, there are not many themes.
About some of Zen's features, I think it's the same as here. Some Vivaldi employees that are even active in this forum have never used some features of Vivaldi and don't feel the urge to. Although I do.
But for the first time, A Firefox fork didn't mean simply just rebranding Firefox and packaging the rebrand with preinstalled extensions and user.js. Using Zen gives a polished browsing experience. The attention to UX is what makes Zen my kind of browser.
Also, Zen is a way of saying "You're dead wrong" to all those guys out there that say "It's hard to make a browser built on top of Gecko" or "It's hard to have a custom UI using Gecko" and then go ahead to create a 'privacy-focused Chromium-based browser' in 2024. -
@Kjala said in Zen browser, An advanced modern Firefox fork with a beautiful Apple-like interface:
Same as how Vivaldi does not use the same theming as Chrome or Brave and so on and so forth.
Not the same. Firefox implemented Theme API for WebExtensions. I have my own extension that uses Theme API, other extensions like Sidebery use it too. These extensions are partially broken.
It's hard to make a browser built on top of Gecko
It's not hard, big companies just can't risk because of decreasing market share of Firefox.
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Curious as to why you point that Chromium extensions are worse than Firefox.
I'm using Arc for Windows atm, and wanted to give a try to competitors like Vivaldi and Zen, but I got stuck quite early on on both for different reasons.
Zen UI is quite lovely tbh, and close to Arc's, but it being Firefox is a massive pain for me. The settings and backend UI sucks compared to Chromium, and I just can't stand it. It feels like the 90s.
Also a big drawback is the extensions support for me. So really curious in what way you think it's better.Just to clarify, I care nothing about privacy. So if that's the bonus, there's none for me.
Vivaldi I was interested due to it being Chromium, and I instantly loved the amount of features. But as many as there are, I feel like it doesn't hit the key ones that Arc nailed having none.
I cannot set bookmarks as vertical, and using vertical tabs as replacements feels lackluster, as they don't seem to hibernate by default. Meaning I cannot reproduce this behaviour from Arc of having everything at my fingertips and switching from one to another easily.
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe there's an obscure way to achieve it.
Still, the UI feels more like Linux than Apple though. It feels cluttered, with too much extras idc about like the mail and calendar apps. And translator, and that weird sidebar. And bookmarks are just that, bookmarks.
I kinda fell in love with the way Arc manages them.
Am I missing something? Is there a way to achieve what I'm looking for?
Ofc there are things bothering me in Arc. And the community here seems quite gorgeous.
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It is a very nice looking browser which basically looks like my Vivaldi setup by default. The added benefit is multi-account containers. I could enjoy this browser for general usage and webbrowsing, for more powerfull use of the web I certainly prefer Vivaldi where I can have way more customization and completely different setups with the multiple profiles.
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@stilgarwolf The first one
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@Chaoscontrol For me it was the fact that it's Firefox-based that's why I got hyped about it. It's freshened up the UI to the level of Chromium-based browsers in my opinion especially since I have the experience of using browsers with Chrome UI like Brave, ChrOpera.
I get repulsed by a redirect to Chromium settings becuase of how ugly and lacking especially privacy settings and that was how I yeeted Arc browser on my Windows 10 system after about 10 minutes. Vivaldi is the browser on which future ones should base their settings on IMHO.
Even for me, vanilla Firefox settings UI is the ugliest installed GUI I have on my system. But Mozilla has shown to devotees of Firefox a plan to change it for the better... when we all die and our descendants have grandchildren I guess. And Tab groups in Firefox are its GTA6.
I'll wait for Arc on Windows to get polished then I can try it out again but my browser is not GMail Desktop in which I must sign an account. -
@aminought Okay but in Zen, those firefox themes don't apply the way they are expected to in Zen.
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The begun ultra customization by removing horizontal tabs, so I stared at my large screen showing a phonelike browser with tabs listed far, at right end.
No way to use it yet, (but I like it's tab stacking). I'll wait for horizontal tabs. -
@Kjala I am not talking about themes. Theme API is about extensions.
