There are now 2.4 million users of Vivaldi (digi.no)

Ayespy

@DerHimmelssheriff iOS is in the works.

My work requires I have a permanent local physical copy of each and every email I send or receive. Are you aware of a web app that does this?

treego

Whatever is popular is so often popular for the wrong reasons ... this is true of many, many things -- including browsers.

As for Vivaldi, one can make it just like the popular browsers if one wants to.

But for me, Vivaldi is special because it incorporates so many things that it makes work/browse-flow so much better!

I have my web panel sites like GMail, YMail, Facebook, Twitter, and GAB along with newsfeeds, mail, calendar, notes, etc. accessible from the panel. I have customized mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts to open up any of these things in a flash and get what I want to immediately and effortlessly.

Of course, I have other routine sites that I visit in bookmarks/speed dial that are cleverly and easily accessible via Quick Commands nickname matching that is unparalleled when compared to other browsers.

Simply put, browsing with all the other browsers is simply boring and not nearly as efficient as it is in Vivaldi for me and others who have delved into Vivaldi's possibilities. That is why we are a passionate user base ... simply because Vivaldi does with browsing what no other browser can do.

Some are content with the vanilla browsing offered by other browsers, BUT I prefer all the flavors with Vivaldi!

TalGarik

@Ayespy said in There are now 2.4 million users of Vivaldi (digi.no):

@DerHimmelssheriff iOS is in the works.

My work requires I have a permanent local physical copy of each and every email I send or receive. Are you aware of a web app that does this?

workplaces were the main reason of Firefox' success fifteen years ago and they are still the reason of the inflated numbers of Firefox' desktop users, the day when all those firms and public institutions will renew their software the developers will come with Chrome or Edge and Firefox- numbers will collapse to its mobile level.
You can use Vivaldi at work, I guess you are self-employed, but no firm or public institution - who for their computers rely on an external software firms - will ever use Vivaldi because software developers working in that line of business have preferred Chrome for years and now Edge.

TalGarik

@DerHimmelssheriff said in There are now 2.4 million users of Vivaldi (digi.no):

My point was: What does make Vivaldi more attractive for more people? And I personally would answer: Not by putting an email-client into it. An iOS browser on the other hand is long overdue.

these days 60% - and has been constantly growing for years - of the internet traffic goes through mobile, Vivaldi came late to android and it is not on iOS yet, it is a lost train.
Vivaldi looks more and more like Jon's personal toy -capriccio - the man is obviously clever and if a clever man loses money for 8 years in a row in a business it means that he can afford it and that this is a venture which has a special flavor for him, I could be wrong but I see no other explanation of why someone would keep alive a failing business.

treego

Ayespy

@TalGarik Amazon lost millions for 6 years, Tesla for 18.

Jon did well for himself in his exit from Opera

From the start, Jon declared Vivaldi was "a browser for our friends." I'm not sure it's making money, yet (he initially said that would require 2M users) but it's probably at least not losing much at this stage.

But usership, staff and traffic have only grown from day one.

TalGarik

@Ayespy I get your point but Amazon and Tesla operated in newborn markets (which by definition are risky and require some time before being profitable), while browsers have been around for decades, I do not like Brave but comparing - practically in the same time span - Brave's and Vivaldi's numbers and growth rate it is quite evident, 80 millions versus 2.4, that crypto and privacy are à la page, tons of features and customization are not.

Even since the first technical preview I have tried to convince family, friends and colleagues to try/use Vivaldi but in the long term no one has sticked with it, not even the ones who for their job or hobby seemed perfect Vivaldi users who should have appreciated panels and notes.
And from anyone came the killing question: no mobile version?
Opera got the importance of the mobile market immediately, and it has paid, if you look at Opera's numbers you will see that it is a bigger actor there - in what it is now the main browsing market - than in desktop. Opera GX has been another smart and successful idea, creating a version of the browser dedicated to gamers who are heavy browser users (and like in the old times now Microsoft is following suit advertising Edge as a browser for gamers).
Users like us are dinosaurs using a browser for dinosaurs I guess.

Ayespy

@DerHimmelssheriff That is where you differ from Jon's Vivaldi vision. He is not trying, and does not want to, appeal to the "vast majority." He is not competing with the majors, and will not simplify it or dumb it down, to appeal to the lowest common denominator like Chrome and Edge do. "Everybody" or "most people" are not his market. They are the market of the majors. He is looking for a big enough audience of people who appreciate sophistication, multi-capability, and variety. He has found 2.5M of them and will find more, enough to make the project sustainable.

In a way, it's a bit like Linux. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Only a small minority of users are even interested. But those who know it and love it are fanatical - enough so that it will always survive.

TalGarik

@Ayespy said in There are now 2.4 million users of Vivaldi (digi.no):

In a way, it's a bit like Linux. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Only a small minority of users are even interested. But those who know it and love it are fanatical - enough so that it will always survive.

what kind of linux? certainly not Ubuntu or Fedora that in different ways have backers consenting them to have an adequate team of developers putting out a professional product, certainly better than Sabayon (which looks like a good comparison for Orion), in the end Mageia is the best comparison: an original project which never got enough traction for the slowness of its development. But Mageia - and other similar linux distros - are made by volunteers, that's why they survive, it is a hobby, they are not losing money.
And money is a central issue, as yourself pointed out in another discussion Vivaldi needs to know how many users it has to strike deals with search engine/advertisers/whatever - making money is central to the development of the browser, it is quite obvious that if 2.4 was 24 (still a small number compared to Brave, not to mention the rest) we would not be here discussing this (and I would have a beautiful Vivaldi browser on iOS).

Pesala

To Attract more users

Implement some of the most popular feature requests - All have over 100 upvotes

Multi-Account Containers or Workspaces
Sessions Panel - Make sessions easier to manage
Save Opened files in Temporary Folder
Support for MIME Types - Let users choose directories per file type
Drag and Drop in Downloads Panel
Auto Detect Logos for Thumbnails - Improve the look of the Start Page
Download Manager - Allocate bandwidth
Export/Import for User Settings - Backup and restore settings
Automark Email as read option
Duplicated Bookmark Detection/Cleanup

Catweazle

@DerHimmelssheriff, I don't have many doubts about the sustainability of Vivaldi, there are about 100 different browsers currently on the market, equally marginal as Vivaldi, but despite being a browser with few users compared to the "big" ones, it is mentioned prominently in the height in almost all technical publications, which others with more users, such as Whale, Cent, etc. they never got. It has even managed to be included in two Distros (Majaro and FerenOS) as the default browser, which companies like Renault and Polestar include in their products (perhaps even paying a commission for it).
It is not necessarily a matter of the number of users, but who uses it.
Maybe in the future an extended business model can be created to create income, so suddenly I can think of a paid premium version for companies that includes a function for collaborative works (I think of something like what System D offers*, which is a French FOSS )

alt text

https://github.com/HUB-HUmanBeing/SystemD

Ayespy

@DerHimmelssheriff Brave has huge outside funding and relatively massive promotion compared to Vivaldi (cuz, money). It's not about its design. It's about its exposure.

Ayespy

@DerHimmelssheriff And its iOS offering is literally nothing more than re-branded Safari with a couple of tweaks, which it was able to produce in less time than Vivaldi due to a MUCH larger (roughly five times the size - again, money) development team.

TalGarik

@DerHimmelssheriff have you ever looked at Samsung Internet's market share? there is no doubt that being pre-installed helps, but Samsung's mobile browser demonstrates that putting out there a good product helps (I am talking as a former Samsung user, the only reason it was not my default it was the lack of a way to sync it with a desktop browser, it had been possible for a while though)
first Firefox and later Chrome "destroyed" Internet Explorer because it was a mediocre product.

TalGarik

@DerHimmelssheriff it is interesting to note that Vivaldi "shines" on the social network with way more less users (but well read ones, the people reading technical publications)

TalGarik

@DerHimmelssheriff a few examples of possible reasons

former founder of Mozilla has more traction than former founder of Opera
crypto has traction
selling yourself as a privacy browser sells
word of mouth weighs more than reviews

when I was on the Windows/Fedora/Android route I used Brave for a while, it was basic - no panels or sidebar, no fancy customization options - but it was efficient and fast, alas its iOS version is ridiculous, it is worse than Safari, at the least for the way I browse

RiveDroite

Apple really needs to let browsers be more than just a wrapper over Safari.

treego

Ayespy

@DerHimmelssheriff One of the keys to Opera's early success (arranged by none other then J S Von Tetzchner) was that it was the default browser on multiple cell phones, TV set-top boxes, game consoles, etc.

At present, are Brave, Opera, Firefox installed by default in automobiles? Nope. But Vivaldi is.

treego

Vivaldi is soooo addicting ... other browsers are snooze-inflicting.