Solved Problem focusing page elements using [TAB]

meatnordrink

On two different machines, on two different OS's, I've found that links aren't tabbable in Vivaldi, but are in Chrome (and even Edge, another Chromium-based browsers).

This has serious a11y implications for Vivaldi, and I'd like to file a bug report as soon as I can get someone to corroborate the bug.

Here're a few example pages, if you need something to try -

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/keyboard-accessibility/

The example link midway down the page should be tabbable.

Thank you!

//MODEDIT: edited title & moved to support

DoctorG

@meatnordrink Vivaldi has a special Spatial Navigation mode with Shift and Cursor keys:
Shift ↑
Shift ↓
Shift ←
Shift →

You want it with Tab (your question)?
You need to activate a setting if you need links and elements to be accessed by Tab key.
Settings → Webpages → (x) Focus all Contols and Links

meatnordrink

@doctorg , fabulous! As usual, Vivaldi is actually ahead of the curve - just takes getting used to.

I'm excited to check out the spatial navigation feature - but as my main use is a11y testing for development, that's great that I can enable typical expected behavior as well.

Thank you so much!

DoctorG

@meatnordrink You are welcome!

Unfortunately the easy fast to use Spatial Navigation has some issues with JavaScript generated menus.

I am testing websites for #a11y, too. #webstandards #aria
And i work as web developer and server-side programmer.

meatnordrink

@doctorg , that's wonderful! Always glad to meet other devs focusing on #a11y.

Aactually, I was just re-testing the site I just finished (which has no issues on Chrome), and I am noticing one difference still - it does seem that there are some links Vivaldi still misses (either with tab, or spatial navigation). At

https://www.niche.com/colleges/admissions-calculator/?college=university-of-pittsburgh

The blue "sign up to get started" link - I can tab to it on Chrome/Edge, not on Vivaldi, even with "Focus All Controls and Links" enabled.

Not a huge issue for me - we don't have many Vivaldi users, probalby - but maybe that actually is a bug?

DoctorG

@meatnordrink Had you started Vivaldi new after settings done? I forgot to tell you that.

For me with 5.0.2497.38 the Spatial Navigation reached the link and the Tab key, too.

"tab" navigate (GIF animation):

Pathduck

@meatnordrink Tab has to be re-opened for new webpage setting to activate, just reloading won't be enough

DoctorG

@pathduck Yes, i always forget that restart Vivaldi or open in a new extra tab is needed to get the new setting working.

Pathduck

@doctorg They really should make "Focus all controls" the default for new installs, it's what users expect from other browsers - even if old Opera had it like that (did it, can't remember?)

Personally I have it to "Focus Forms Only" but that's because I use my own extension for keyboard access, which works much better than standard Spatial Nav and has link hotkeys as well.
https://github.com/Pathduck/spatialnavigation

Quick demo video: https://ttm.sh/iei.mp4

(Vivaldi adding link hotkeys by default would be a match made in heaven )

DoctorG

@pathduck said in Looking for bug confirmation for serious Vivaldi a11y bug:

They really should make "Focus all controls" the default for new installs

Feature alread in tracker VB-55774 "Change the default focus option from "Focus Forms Only" to "Focus All Controls and Links""
I try to ping devs. But no hope yet

meatnordrink

@DoctorG and @Pathduck - that did it! Thank you for your patience with me on this, I should have tried that. (And thank you @DoctorG for going to the trouble to actually test that page with it!)

It didn't occur to me because tabbing worked for every other link on the page without actually reloading the page after changing the settings.

Thanks for turning me on to spatial navigation, as well! Gave it a try, and I think it's a great feature!

DoctorG

@meatnordrink I forgot to say to you: Welcome in our Vivaldi Community.

DoctorG

@meatnordrink Feel free to report issues with Spatial Navigation to Vivaldi bugtracker. We internal Vivaldi testers need reports to get fixes.

meatnordrink

@DoctorG Will do, thank you!

jumpsq

Since the two of you focus on accessibility issues much more than I do and are probably aware of the requirements and consequences, what do you think about proposing a standard set of settings e.g. for people who require a screen reader, which could be proposed to vivaldi as either an additional button during setup or as its own menu?

Of course keyboard shortcuts are a big deal in accessibility, but I do much more refer to some the behaviour of the tab key (Focus Input vs. Focus All Controls), possibly a link that documents how spatial navigation and certain page actions can increase accessibility, and of course font and font size.

I'm not sure that there really is a path or use case and probably most settings have a sane default, but it has just come to mind right now.
I guess this thread is as a better place than most others are to discuss this, but it's a focus shift, so feel free to start a new thread should you want to share some ideas.

(And yes, I assume that large settings menus prevent or hinder accessibility, but of course choice provide it as well, so there will be no definite answer whether such a proposal is really helpful, let alone necessary or even advantageous for accessibility. But I guess that if the requirements differ, a check box that enables more fitting defaults may still be a good thing.)

DoctorG

@jumpsq Report that missing accessability/setting feature to bug tracker. I will confirm that.

jumpsq

@doctorg VB-86143

Thank you.

DoctorG

@jumpsq Thanks.
I supported this feature with a comment in tracker.

meatnordrink

@jumpsq, I'm less familiar with the pathway to Vivaldi features (I mainly just show up here to report bugs), but I do think an option during setup to enable a set of sane defaults for increase a11y is a great idea. If there's a link where I can add my support for that, please feel free to send it to me.

jumpsq

@meatnordrink Typically, feature requests are listed in the appropriate section and are voted for here, but it's also possible to use the bug tracker to "report" feature requests.

I believe that me reporting and @DoctorG supporting the request should be sufficient for now and will likely create the awareness needed for the issue, likely more than just another feature request thread. Of course, discussion threads have the advantage that it would be easier to include other opinions.

For transparency, I will also cite the request here so that you know what I've included. Maybe you have some comments about it or different / additional ideas; if so, go ahead

Accessibility settings

There should be either
(1) a dedicated section for accessibility settings menu, or
(2) a toggle / single button in setup screen and settings to enable settings that improve accessibility

Settings page is large, which is a huge advantage for [visually] impaired people offering configurations that are not available elsewhere, but default zoom level, font type and size, contrast settings and several others (e.g. Tab focus on forms only or other elements as well) may be most important during setup and are rather hidden in Webpages or elsewhere. It may be possible to have very different default settings for people who require those.
Also, page actions will offer important tools, and could in this case be positioned and advertised more prominently (i.e. possibly display a welcome page that explains their existence and functionality in short sentences if the toggle is pressed).

The toggle should be easily visible, maybe not as an extra page but below ad-block settings.
Should be added for mobile as well (I will not create an extra FR since a concept for desktop can probably mostly carry over).

Feel free to inquire the status of this request (VB-86143) in about 3+ months in this thread.