Sorry to realize that Vivaldi is just a variant of the memory consuming Chrome :(
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They can't actually use Opera's codebase, obviously. And there's just no time or resource to make a new layout engine. A Gecko-based browser might be better performance-wise, but Firefox is itself very customizable.
For now, I'd say the intermediate solution is to have multiple browsers installed. Most sites I go to are still perfectly functional under Opera 12, so it's not like there's pressure to switch for now.
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@RRR13:
Am I the only one who understands what Case is saying?!
Do ALL of you people actually use your PCs ONLY for browsing?!Of course not, but with half a dozen other programs open, Opera 12.17 is using more than any of them (close to 1 Gbyte) while Vivaldi is using much less even with several process running. Total RAM use is running at 35% so as said before, unless it approaches 80% it is not an issue. 65% of my RAM is busy do nothing. I don't care if Vivaldi uses another 2 of my 8 Gbytes.
If you want to run many applications at once, and you keep running out of RAM, either buy more RAM or open fewer tabs. Close your browser sometimes — don't leave it running for days or weeks.
Everything is Amazing, but Nobody's Happy
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I sympathize with both sides. We're stuck with Blink it looks like, and it's useless to whine for a single-process engine. On my desktop, the issue is moot, because I have plenty of memory.
On the other hand, there HAS to be a way to better-optimize Vivaldi's memory usage, given that for instance the machine I have to work on today is maxed out at 3Gb of RAM - it will not take more - and using Vivaldi as economically as possible, keeping only the bare minimum of tabs open, it still runs me completely out of memory. I know that given time, the team can do better.
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Of course not, but with half a dozen other programs open, Opera 12.17 is using more than any of them (close to 1 Gbyte) while Vivaldi is using much less even with several process running.
Yes, the thing with the good old Opera is that it tends to take up a noticeable amount of RAM as soon as you start it, even if you only have a few tabs open. In that situation, Blink-based browser might actually take up less memory. It will very much depend on what tabs you have open, but it might happen.
However, once you start opening some more tabs, this will change pretty quickly, as the old Opera was very efficient when it came to handling a lot of tabs at once. That's why Opera users often tend to have tens, sometimes even hundreds of tabs open at once - it wasn't really a problem for Opera. It was meant to be used like that and it was very well optimized in that regard.
Right now, if I open my current set of about 50 tabs (pretty average for me and pretty much below average for a long-time Opera user) in a Blink-based browser, it eats up about 5 GBs of my 8GB of RAM. And we're talking 32bit browsers here - go 64bit and it will be somewhere around 1-2 GBs more, essentially eating up all of my RAM.
Opera 12.17, with the same set of tabs, is pretty happy with a very reasonable 2.5GB of RAM. And working with those 50 tabs is actually noticeably faster, just because it is so well optimized.
(However, Firefox still manages to consume even less memory than Opera with the same set of tabs - around 1.2GB - while offering pretty decent performance, even though its UI is certainly not as responsive as Opera's.)
It's not a Vivaldi-related issue, though, it's a Blink issue. Every Blink-based browser is the same. Partially, that's due to the fact that Blink spawns new process for every single tab you open, so the memory tends to add up. But I can't help but feel like Blink is not exactly well optimized and efficient when it comes to memory usage.
If you want to run many applications at once, and you keep running out of RAM, either buy more RAM or open fewer tabs. Close your browser sometimes — don't leave it running for days or weeks.
That's an excellent advice. With that attitude, I really hope you're not a software developer. Because the "if that app uses too much RAM, just buy more RAM or open smaller files" is a perfect example of an approach a software developer should not only never adopt, but actually actively avoid.
(Also, I really don't want to run that many apps at once I don't think. I'm perfectly happy with being able to run four or five apps at once. Not that easy when most of your RAM gets eaten up by just a browser.)
BTW, what's wrong with leaving an application running for days or even weeks? There really shouldn't be any issues with that, unless your application is leaking memory due to being badly written and/or having bugs…
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… BTW, what's wrong with leaving an application running for days or even weeks? There really shouldn't be any issues with that, unless your application is leaking memory due to being badly written and/or having bugs...
Or unless your app uses memory-resident file copies that continually grow like topsy over time (history, cookies, etc)… or uses plug-ins/extensions that can't handle such growing things without bloating... or so many tabs are opened over time that the user can't keep track of all the ones that should have been closed but weren't... or a plug-in like Flash gets invoked in tab after tab but never gets fully shut down in some of them until everything simply gets clogged.
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Pale Moon is far better than Firefox … for those interested.
Some of you are making me very sentimental for my old Opera, once again. Opera-Presto was the best--what a crying shame it's not developed anymore!!!!!
Jon Von Tetschner ... get the Presto engine and run with it ... forget this Chromium or Blink or Stink stuff!
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Right now, if I open my current set of about 50 tabs (pretty average for me and pretty much below average for a long-time Opera user)
It may be average for you, but the average user of old Opera used just 20 tabs or fewer. Fifty tabs is not exceptional, but it is well above the average. There was a long-running survey on the old Opera forums. I attach the results from a poll for all browser users At makeuseof.com. As you can see, 64% of users open 15 or fewer tabs and more than 50% of users open 10 or fewer tabs.
There were also plenty of similar threads on the old Opera forums about memory use, and those who complained the most were running ridiculous numbers of tabs or using out-dated hardware.
No doubt the memory use will be optimised when Vivaldi gets out of beta, but there will always be issues for users who open tons of tabs and never close the browser. It is a stupid way of working for all of the reasons that Blackbird stated.
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ok, why are you guys using that many tabs ? - 50-100 open was referenced.
are you using them like bookmarks or something? how do you keep track of that many? - just curious.
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I can't speak for those who constantly have dozens of tabs open, but for myself:
- generally only a handful of tabs open
- goes up to 10-30 when browsing a forum (like here…) since I tend to middle-click all the threads with new posts
(but this will then be worked through until they're all closed again) - can go up to 30+ when searching for something in Google, TripAdvisor etc. when again I middle-click all the potentially interesting links before comparing them and whittling down to the handful I'm most interested in.
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Everyone seems to be bemoaning the fact that the Vivaldi team chose to use Blink. They say the browser is slow, the memory usage is too great, etc. What they seem to be missing is the design decisions that the team are making.
All other web designers use the following method;
- Make stable
- Add features
- Optimize
Because Vivaldi have decided to give us the browser we want, they're skipping step 1. They can afford to do that because they're letting Google take care of step 1.
Once we have the browser we want (and I can still hear the cries of O12 feature-seekers on the forums) I can see the team switching to step 3. And because Blink is open and welcomes outside support, the experience of the Vivaldi team will help make the Blink engine even better.
Let Vivaldi give us the browser we want. Once Vivaldi goes Beta (yep, we're still in Alpha people), then we can start expecting better performance.
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ok, why are you guys using that many tabs ? - 50-100 open was referenced.
are you using them like bookmarks or something? how do you keep track of that many? - just curious.
According to my experience, all the crazy tab opener started to get used with them by mistake, when they switched from explorer/netscape to Opera and started to close the browser w/o never closing a tab, simply because, in a first moment, they didn't understand the session restore function.
Personally I consider it a misuse of the tabbed navigation, something that Opera allowed easily and that, I'm afraid, Vivaldi will never allow.
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There are extensions like "Read it later" for people who like to work in this way, i.e. collecting dozens of tabs that they are not actually ready to read yet.
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Vivaldi is never going to be Opera12 but no one likes to be told how to (mis)use a browser.
I use Opera12 tabs and sessions like a library and storage and I have well over one-hundred cached tabs open but stacked and collapsed until I want to use them. I have saved sessions I can load up too and I'll probably keep using it that way too until another browser can be set up to read and use cached pages – every single time -- until I explicitly tell it to refresh the page.
Give me your tapes, books, notes, articles, stories, journals, links, lists, images and videos, car keys and recipes and I'll tell you how to use them and how many of them I think you should have out at the same time, then I'll tear out most of the pages in the books and get rid of anything else I don't think you need.
I promise you can have some of your stuff back if you really want it because there's a metal detector in the closet for your keys and a handy roll-of-tape app over there on the desktop that will let you open up a list of all the places to look for your stuff so you can try to find and tape a few of the pages back in one of the books. :woohoo:
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It's called Presto, RRR! Presto! There's your answer!
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The conclusion is inescapable that there are more ignorant than informed people in the world. They don't care, and don't want to know how things work. They just want what they want, and feel free to get pissed at anyone who won't lay it at their feet.
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Tabs are an easy way to switch from page to page. Are people who switch back and forth between 50 pages misusing tabs? How about about 40? 30? 20? 10? 5? 4? 3? 2? When does the abuse become proper acceptable use? Which dictator will decided for every last user exactly the limit? Personally, I can switch - and want to be switching - between 50+ tabs in Vivaldi. I could do with more. I have found a way to use that many tabs; easily.
Unlike others, I don't pretend to be smart enough to figure out all the ways other people can use many tabs. Or few tabs. It is absurd for people to tell other people how many tabs they can or cannot use because one simply cannot see all the possible scenarios.
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The conclusion is inescapable that there are more ignorant than informed people in the world. They don't care, and don't want to know how things work. They just want what they want, and feel free to get pissed at anyone who won't lay it at their feet.
I know how things work. Demand drives the product. I want an Opera-Presto-like browser. There are enough sluggish resource-hungry chromium/blink browsers out there. Let's reproduce Opera Presto! Give us some Zesto! It was the Besto! Let's be Blessed! Yo!
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When does the abuse become proper acceptable use? Which dictator will decided for every last user exactly the limit?
Which dictator will tell the developers that designing the browser to work with huge numbers of tabs is the highest priority?
No one is telling anyone how many tabs they can use, or how they should work, but don't expect any support or sympathy if you run into problems with 50+ tabs open at once.
Vivadi is clearly aimed at power users who use their browser intensively, but not all power-users open dozens of tabs. I have found more efficient ways of working by using bookmarks, undo, or the history panel to reopen tabs that I need from yesterday or earlier today. Other users get extensions like "Read it later," or save lots of sessions. There are any number of different methods of working, and not all require all tabs to be open at once.
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Working on a virtual pc with about max 3GB of free ram is a limit when apps. uses ram way beyond what makes any sense!
Why a browser should use gigs of ram for showing some pages with text and a few images beats me!
Chrome, Vivaldi etc. easily use this amount of ram alone - starting memory swapping.
This uses the disk (SSD if you have) heavily.About 20 tabs is what I have on the task bar - need a lot more on the browser bar… (Developer).
Well - I will look for a browser using memory efficient, with the shortkeys and functions like Opera 12.
Anyone have any suggestions?As for the rest 'please use all my memory' people - I can easily make you a application that does a lot of (useless) work using all your memory. Can sell it cheap and I suppose you all will be happy knowing all your memory is working...
Making efficient applications using no more ram then necessary is a challenge.
Munching memory is easy!Using common libs in stead of creating you own efficient libs is a lot cheaper and saves time - under development.
Building a car when all you need is a bicycle is time- and memory consuming - under processing. -
On a x86 64 bit pc with 2GB (sob) of ram.
%age of memory in use with the same 8 tabs open (except where specified otherwise):-Vivaldi 1.0.196.2 - 70%
Chromium 41.0.2272.76 - 58% (12 tabs)
Opera 12.16 - 42%
Otter 0.9.07 weekly #75 - 27%
Firefox 38 - 22% (14 tabs)Hardly scientific, but interesting.