Move to the Snap package format



  • Hello, I'm new here! On Linux we are moving to a new packaging format(s) that focus a lot more on sand boxing and being easier to install on many different Linux distributions. At the moment when a Linux user goes to install Vivaldi they can only go to your webpage and download it which comes either in a .deb or rpm package, if you offered a snap you would streamline the whole installation process. What is a snap? A snap is a fancy zip file containing an application together with its dependencies, and a description of how it should safely be run on your system, especially the different ways it should talk to other software. Most importantly snaps are designed to be secure, sandboxed, containerised applications isolated from the underlying system and from other applications. Snaps allow the safe installation of apps from any vendor on mission critical devices and desktops. Learn more about snaps here: http://snapcraft.io/ Here is how you would upload them to the Ubuntu Software Center for users to easily install the application rather than going to the site: http://snapcraft.io/docs/build-snaps/publish It's pretty early days for snaps but we already seeing the likes of the VLC player transition to snap, I would like to see my favourite browser join too. Firefox have also stated to move to snap packages later this year. So anyway, lets get the conversation rolling. Daniel McGuire [url=https://wiki.ubuntu.com/daniel-mcguire351]Ubuntu Member[/url]



  • Hey mate, Ubuntu ist not linux! ubuntu change to snap but thats all at the moment, no other distro do it too so far I know.
    Using snap the maintainer looses control of the programms.



  • I dont think Vivaldi will pack it into Snap. It is easier to generate a deb package and distribute over a repo or install with dpkg.
    And RPM and DEB are packages you can install, you can extract the files (like you would do with atrball) for a standalone install.
    Snap is a new Ubuntu package format. may be Vivaldi devs will test it and deliver a Snap one in half a year or later or never.



  • @RocknRolf:

    Hey mate, Ubuntu ist not linux! ubuntu change to snap but thats all at the moment, no other distro do it too so far I know.
    Using snap the maintainer looses control of the programms.

    I'm sure that even good distros will be infected by such things. Just like happened with the systemd cancer.

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Snaps-Fedora-Arch-More


  • Vivaldi Team

    Hi,

    Snap is not the only game in town as far as the new "all inclusive" packaging go. We would have to support several of those if we decided to go down that path though. I'm not saying we won't support Snap. It's actually very tempting to distribute one all inclusive Vivaldi package that (in theory) runs on most flavors of Linux.

    We will of course follow this development of Snap and the others closely. When the demand is there we will offer whatever our users are asking for. As always, it's you guys who determine where we are going, so even though I can't promised Snap packages in a week this thread has value telling us that there are users who would like to see all inclusive packaging, in this case Snap.

    So stay tuned! :)



  • Thanks for the reply.

    I do know that Snaps are just one of the options, but as an Ubuntu member I'm in that camp. Plus I see it being the biggest and widest adopted format. However, to me I don't care if it is Snap or flatpacks or whatever! I know it's early days but as I said I think it's good to get conversations going early on.

    Oh and to the others, I know Linux is not just Ubuntu.



  • Please create a Poll in our Linux forum, we will see how many user demanding Snap-like packages.
    I'm curious how many users will demand.
    Lets see…



  • Ubuntu is certainly a big mover and shaker due to being so popular and the basis for many other spin-off distributions. They usually try to do their own thing if possible, because other solutions are Not Invented Here. A fine example is the Mir display server. This kind of behaviour is, to a certain degree, expected from a commercial company that has to differentiate its products from the competition. The extreme case is an Apple-style walled garden.

    I would imagine the Ubuntu community to be happy to fill the need for Snap-packaged versions of popular software, including Vivaldi. Other distributions already do this with their own packaging formats. Given that Snap seems to be meant for mission critical systems, I wouldn't expect a need for any other versions of a web browser than the current stable one. No matter how you sandbox it, it will crash your system if there is a severe enough bug.



  • @kumiponi:

    Ubuntu is certainly a big mover and shaker due to being so popular and the basis for many other spin-off distributions. They usually try to do their own thing if possible, because other solutions are Not Invented Here. A fine example is the Mir display server. This kind of behaviour is, to a certain degree, expected from a commercial company that has to differentiate its products from the competition. The extreme case is an Apple-style walled garden.

    Sorry but that is just insane. I'm not going to talk Wayland/Mir since this isn't the topic. People accuse NIH with "this product has been in the making for years and doesn't do what we need it to".

    @kumiponi:

    I would imagine the Ubuntu community to be happy to fill the need for Snap-packaged versions of popular software, including Vivaldi. Other distributions already do this with their own packaging formats. Given that Snap seems to be meant for mission critical systems,.

    Snappy isn't just for the Ubuntu community at all. The recent snappy event in Germany was attended by the likes of Suse, Arch, Elementary, Mate, and many other people outside of Ubuntu! Snappy is coming at light speed with the help of main distributions helping out.

    The latest Linux Unplugged podcast episode has a great rundown of that event.
    @kumiponi:

    I wouldn't expect a need for any other versions of a web browser than the current stable one. No matter how you sandbox it, it will crash your system if there is a severe enough bug.

    That is FUD.



  • @DSMcGuire:

    People accuse NIH with "this product has been in the making for years and doesn't do what we need it to".

    There's always a reason isn't there. What they really need it to do is about the same thing as everyone else does, but different enough to warrant creating the same thing from scratch rather than contributing to an existing project.

    @DSMcGuire:

    Snappy isn't just for the Ubuntu community at all. The recent snappy event in Germany was attended by the likes of Suse, Arch, Elementary, Mate, and many other people outside of Ubuntu! Snappy is coming at light speed with the help of main distributions helping out.

    There's no need to talk of other distributions when the only one that uses it is Ubuntu/Canonical. The key word in "coming at light speed" is coming, as in not there yet, if ever.

    @DSMcGuire:

    That is FUD.

    No, it's true, and if you have some information that disproves it, I'm all ears.


  • Vivaldi Team

    I think Vivaldi snaps are likely at some point as Ubuntu moves in that direction and considering that Ubuntu is such a popular distro. It is also the easiest way to support delta updates on Ubuntu which I think has great advantages and people will increasingly expect.

    I am not yet convinced that they are a "universal" package format however. While snapd is available for other distros it is not installed by default and it remains to be seen if users of these distros will install it to get access to snaps. If they do that will give snaps more weight. Until then it is basically the (new) Ubuntu package format and my gut feeling is that it may remain that way. Even as an Ubuntu only format however, it is still interesting.



  • Could I add a request for a plain compressed tar format.

    Running Vivaldi seems to be a fairly straightforward procedure but for those who want to avoid even that complication you could provide a shell script to check for dependencies and copy the files to their conventional locations. Those with less conventional arrangements can then tweak the script own arrangements.



  • @chris-barry

    @ruario has 2 interesting scripts on his Gist Github to make you start, but honestly I don't check deeper on them.

    What's missing from them is dependency check.


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