Gendering in forum
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@JohnConnorBear , I am German and I live in Spain and I care little in what language I communicate. English is used here, which is logical in an international forum, as English is the most widely used language, at least in the technical field. Although in reality the most spoken are Chinese and then Spanish, but they are less apt in technology matters.
It is not that people hate their language, I don't think so, but in a more globalized world the need for communication prevails and at this point minority languages have no place. -
@JohnConnorBear said in Gendering in forum:
Dear human being, unless "human" is discriminating among species, yes, sorry, dear being, it seems you don't realize somebody made you be ashamed of your own culture.
That is great, indeed. I know it is not Vivaldi, it is the constant pressure and brainwashing from the so called "mainstream culture" but I find a bit annoying that you feel compelled to tell us how very very ashamed you are of being what you are. I feel sorry for you, being so unlucky to be born czech. Guess what, if we work all together we can erase all those countries, languages, culture from the planet. Lets go.
What do you want me to say? That I pity you and potmeklecbohdan because you both have been brainwashed in hating what you are, your ancestors, your culture? Ok, I pity you both.
(wrapped in another quote block to save space)
Who said I’m ashamed for being a Czech? I like it, I only said the language is sometimes difficult to use when I don’t know who I’m talking/writing to.
The mainstream in Europe is just erasing european cultures.
Whaat? The cultures just change, like they always did.
Like you see here, I am writing in another language not because I want to but because I am forced to,
You aren’t. You could just ignore this discussion. But it makes you more free to know more languages—you can speak with many people you wouldn’t know they exist.
like the french and the czech "beings" above, who both are conditioned in hating their mother languages.
As I said.
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@JohnConnorBear said in Gendering in forum:
suddenly you realized you hate "genders", all by yourself, because the language was "awkward".
That is not at all what I said. Please don't take thing I said out of context. I'll try and clarify what I meant, if I was confusing.
The french language is awkward and I hate the use of certain grammar in it. I hate having to remember if a word should be preceded by "le" or "la". If I should stress the ending when it has an "e" or if it's an exception.
We say that certain nouns in french are "gendered", but this is a misnomer. How can a word like "arbre" (tree) be masculine or feminine? It can't. We just say those words have a "gender" because that's easier to explain.
When I say I hate genders, I mean I hate the grammar. I never said I hate genders.
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@Gwen-Dragon @Steffie As someone said in another thread, this one has become «ouroborosific».
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@potmeklecbohdan , especially in the computer world, as in this forum, currently there is no problem to communicate with people from any country, there are excellent translation tools that allow people to understand and respond in any language, which I also often do, finding posts mine in Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese, Polish and also Czech
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@potmeklecbohdan said in Gendering in forum:
I’ll have to think of this a little, it’s morning for me and I did’t yet have much time to think what to put in this post. Please don’t get angry with me and be patient, I’ll try to look at it from other angles and I’ll share results if I get anywhere.
It seems I won’t get to it because of that human who has completely different opinion (and calls a pen a being).
It’s not the first time I miss the downvote button here on the forum…
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@JohnConnorBear , this is oversimplifying, cultures evolve according to the conditions at each moment. It is logical that in a more technical, globalized and liberal society, the culture is not the same as that of our grandparents and these surely did not live in the same way as their medieval ancestors.
Good things and customs are maintained, ignoring those that become obsolete, for whatever circumstances, be it in daily life, in the language or in art. -
@LonM You were talking about grammatical genders (les genres grammaticaux). I've always wondered how foreign people manage to learn all those rules, the many exceptions to all those rules. You are une personne, though you are a man…
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@JohnConnorBear
You can't remove a link without going back along the whole chain
You don't need to. Languages evolve over time. These changes are a natural occurrence, and you don't have to undo links in a chain, the whole point of a language evolving is to build more links to the chain.
Look at new and old English - they are very different languages, but just because we use new english it doesn't diminish the power or meaning of the old language. It's still a part of our history and culture.
If I argued that we should stop using awkward grammar, and enough people agreed with me, we could create a dialect of french. I would still consider myself french, but I would speak a slightly different version of it. That's a natural course of the evolution of languages.
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@hlehyaric , each language has its particularities and the gender of a noun does not necessarily have to do with the genus alidido, the gender of the word 'person' in Spanish is feminine, for example, but its meaning is neutral.
Grammar is never an absolutely logical arrangement, but is an arrangement that adapts to aesthetic and phonetic criteria in any language. Logical is just the mathematical and programming language. -
@JohnConnorBear I see. It seems you also chose to disregard the article I shared, but no matter, that was always a possibility.
I'll play along with your theoretical scenario. If we inverted the equation as you say, and ignore some "unwritten rule" as you put it, I would most certainly be willing to listen. After all, the best way to keep any kind of sensible discussion is by making a deliberate attempt to not offend.
It is most certainly impossible to never offend someone, and I myself have likely offended someone without realizing it before, but that is no excuse to not do better. You don't seem to want to do that; this is a game after all, so it's no wonder you find this issue unimportant and wrong. After all, why try to be better when it doesn't benefit you exclusively.
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@Catweazle said in Gendering in forum:
Logical is just the mathematical and programming language
No wonder then that mathematics is the language of the cosmos, instead of linguistics languages. Imagine all the wars we'd have accidentally started with Betelgeuse, for instance.
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@JohnConnorBear Nice, passive aggressiveness.
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@JohnConnorBear
You are right that there are many cases of authoritarian regimes imposing their language on others and not giving anyone any choice in the matter. This is not a good thing.
But if people want to change their language, of their own choice, and encourage others to do the same, who are we to say no? If we strike those people down, and force use of the old language, then are we any better than those same authoritarian regimes who force a new language on people?
(I certainly don't expect to create my own little version of french with simplified grammar, that was a somewhat tongue in cheek remark.)
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I simply do not comprehend the thinking & ethics of those who passionately energetically argue for the right to disrespect other humans. Cliched though it is, that begins a very slippery slope.
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@JohnConnorBear , in Spain, Spanish is the official language to allow communication over the entire territory, but each autonomy has its own dialect and even another language, such as Basque, Catalan, Galician, Valencian, which have little or nothing to do with Spanish. You can even add the whistling language of the Canary Islands.
Language is a tool for communication where the main weight is, in allowing people to communicate and understand each other, with which language is irrelevant. A local language allows communication in this locality, but today, if a second or third language is not used, it will be impossible to do it outside this locality.
Today it is impossible and absurd to insist on speaking only the mother tongue, regardless of where you travel. It is not the same as before where people did not leave their village, which, with some exceptions, is no longer the case. -
@JohnConnorBear I think I don’t understand your reasoning. On one hand you tell we shouldn’t force anyone to behave differently (I will keep the forcing/not forcing discussion for later), on the other you tell world’s history is and will always be all about that.
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@JohnConnorBear I have no idea what you are even trying to tell me here. Are you telling me I'm a sheep herder? If so, I had no idea of my new profession!
Then again, I tend to misunderstand a lot of things around here.Btw, if this gets too off-topic the mods might close this thread (and with good reasoning too), so a friendly reminder to not stray towards senseless bickering.
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@AltCode said in Gendering in forum:
I had no idea of my new profession!
Don't forget to tell your former employer of your one .
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@JohnConnorBear said in Gendering in forum:
I don't know what your background is but if you have studied some history of Europe you know there wasn't any "authoritarian regime", it was the way the things were and always had been since ever. Languages, religions, laws, traditions, even hair and eyes colors, where decided by the sword.
OK. Maybe I was wrong to use the word "authoritarian" to describe rule by violence. Regardless, this is how things were done in the past (I absolutely do not deny this), and it was a bad way to rule. It led us to where are now, but we have grown as a society and I would hate to see us return to that.
Now you say "it is not a good thing". Yeah, again, really?
Yes, really. Ruling through violence and fear ("deciding by the sword", as you eloquently put it) is not good.
The whole history of the world is not a good thing, lets make a new one. We meet on Vivaldi, we discuss the changes, we agree and the world will "evolve" for the better.
We can't just make a new world, that's not how reality works (unless your name is Slartibartfast). But we can collectively make small changes to our lives. And if we all do that, then I do believe there is hope that we can change things for the better.
Now, dear "being", I don't care if you believe in unicorns, problem is since you aren't aware of how things work in reality, you don't see what is happening either you don't understand it. Because you are convinced that "changes" happen because people "feel like it".
Unicorns are awesome. I wish they were real. I can't make them real just by feeling for them though.
Being kind to each other is awesome. I wish that happened more often. I can make that real by making small changes to how I act. I know that in reality many people don't do this, but I can still try and make a small difference.